this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2023
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Mechanical Keyboards
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Both of those keyboards have barebones versions (ie everything included except keycaps and switches), so you could buy switches and keycaps separately and install them yourself.
The only issue being both of these keyboards utilize south facing LEDs, which are known to not work well with conventional shine through keycaps (legends appear dim compared to north facing). The reason south facing is popular with enthusiasts is due to keycap compatibility (south facing LEDs mean that the switch is "right side up" and cherry profile keycaps fit properly). Thankfully, there are one or two keycap sets that are shine through and work with south facing LEDs. On this set, it is done by placing the legends on the side of the keycaps instead of the top: https://drop.com/buy/npkc-gradient-pbt-doubleshot-side-lit-keycap-set?defaultSelectionIds=971604. If you don't like these keycaps and/or can't find any like this that you do like, read on.
The main issue with finding keyboards with north facing LEDs is that there are very few that are up to "enthusiast" standards. Most boards that ship with north facing LEDs do not have nice features that keychron (and other enthusiast) boards have like QMK/VIA support, screw in stabilizers, properly prelubed switches/stabilizers, etc. In short, they might be okish, but you will be compromising other things like sound, feel, and functionality for conventional shine through keycaps that look right.
If you are ok with lots of compromises you can try:
*royal kludge rk87
+Cheap ($55)
+TKL+Wireless+north facing+shine thru keycaps
-no hot swap or qmk/via support
-plastic housing
-Needs mods to sound and feel good (see https://youtu.be/Yrnjf_QbA3M for a similar keyboard with mods)
-bad stabilizers most likely
-weird software/firmware of unknown quality
*Redragon K596 Vishnu
+TKL+wireless+north facing+shine thru keycaps
-higher price ($75)
-no qmk/via support
-macro/media keys are non standard (no keycap set will have them)
-""""hot-swap"""" with only outemu switches (pins/sockets are thinner and regular switches don't fit)
-will also need mods probably
-bad stabilizers most likely
-weird software/firmware of unknown quality
Yeah the whole north vs south facing thing just seems silly. The right keycap profile seems to eliminate any keycap-switch interference issues so designing a decent north facing keyboard with the appropriate features should be trivial. Hell keychron made a good one (K10) just didn’t have qmk/via.
Pudding keycaps are another good possibility but I’m a Mac user and I’ve yet to find pudding keycaps with Mac legends.
I can kind of see why keyboard manufacturers do this with their nicer models. Another issue with shine through keycaps is that they have to be very thin for the shine through to work properly, which makes them feel cheap to enthusiasts, who usually prefer thicker, higher quality keycaps. Therefore, most enthusiasts do not care about shinethrough (and, as a result, the orientation of the LEDs) and would rather trade shinethrough compatibility for keycap profile compatibility.
On the other hand, it is still annoying. For a hobby that puts pReFeReNcE on a pedestal, it can be hard to find a perfect endgame. It's already basically impossible to find the pudding keycaps with Mac legends like you said, but it would be even more challenging to find those same keycaps in an obscure format like ISO Nordic or something. It's why so many folks in the EU use ANSI keycaps even though they're inconvenient for them to use.
Pretty sure there is no endgame with me 😀 I will constantly see something newer and shinier.
I’m fairly certain I could come up with some design or process that isn’t thin and would let the light through if given enough time and money but I don’t have a lot of either unfortunately. So I guess I will search and search until my twilight years 🪦😂
Maybe before than my 3D printer would be capable of making what I eventually would want. I’ve actually gotten pretty good results already. We shall see.
Thank you so much for the thorough answer! I'll check all this stuff out!
Keycap interference on south-facing boards is only an issue with cherry profile caps, and an increasing amount of switches solve the issue with slightly changed housings or longer stems.
In other words, it might very well be a non-issue. And if your combo of caps and switches are problematic, you can always use tiny slips of paper in the stems of the switches, or o-rings.