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Counterpoint: At my partner's former workplace a transwoman cannot enter the women's bathroom at the same time as any AFAB woman. That woman has to stand outside and wait if people are trying to use the bathroom and essentially out and other herself on a daily basis. I don't know if this came about because some annoying Karen complained or because management preemptively decided to shit on her so as not to risk offending any of the other women who use the bathroom. It's pretty fucked. I can't imagine how embarrassing and dehumanizing that is. If a transman came into the bathroom with me I wouldn't think he was trying to get his jollies looking at my weiner. Also, plenty of cis dudes have done that to me. That said, the vast majority of my bathroom visits have been just that minus any leering whatsoever from anyone no matter what parts they have.

The discussion has been had. I mean, white people used to not want to drink from the same drinking fountain as black people. This is the same logic

I'm not saying creeps and perverts don't exist, but I'm willing to bet there are easier ways to get a glimpse of bathroom boobies than checks notes going on hormone therapy and fundamentally changing how you interface with society

I'm not saying other people shouldn't have a voice on this topic, but that discussion is a topic that is based in transphobia. If a woman feels uncomfortable sharing the bathroom with a trans woman, it's because she has a predisposition to fear and feel unsafe around trans women.

Contrast it with the past, where men used to feel uncomfortable with women in typically male dominated spaces. I remember seeing an old news video where a female reporter was sitting in a bar typically frequented by men. She asked them how that made them feel and all the men she asked made a point to mention they felt uncomfortable with her in the bar with them and they would rather her leave than share the bar with her.

This is the same argument you're presenting. It would seem ludicrous now as we've moved past that point (for the most part, it's not a 100% solved issue sadly), but at the time it was seen as a legitimate argument, as sexism was still rampant at the time and it was the norm for women to be excluded from male spaces.

There is nuance to your presented argument in that the space that's in question is a restroom, which is a more private and intimate space, but the nature of the argument is still based in transphobia and I think should be presented as such. It's the root of the issue and the aspect that needs to be addressed before any headway can be made on the topic

When I was a younger man I used to feel very uncomfortable around gay people, particularly gay men. I didn't "hate" them per se, but being around them made my skin crawl. This was a direct result of the environment I grew up in, and the lack of experience I had with actually getting to know gay people personally. Eventually once I made my way out into the world I was forced to interact with actual gay men and learned that they are just normal people, and my discomfort was entirely in my head, it was a product of ignorance and prejudice. I am glad to say I am better for having moved beyond that. At that time those feelings were a lot more politically valid, but that doesn't make them any less homophobic. What you are validating is the same. Trans women using female bathrooms pose no actual risk to those cis women (any more than other cis women do in female restrooms). I would bet that very few of those cis women vocalizing those concerns have ever actually been aware of sharing a restroom with a trans woman. They just imagine some hairy boogyman dressed in a dress saying "I have the right to use this bathroom" but that's in their head. It's not a valid fear, it's a phobia. They need to be educated, not coddled and told those feelings are valid. If trans women were actually assaulting or peeping on cis women using the restroom that might be different, but the fact remains women (cis or trans) are almost certainly much more likely to be assaulted in the women's restroom by a cis man than by a trans woman. You can't say you are not trans-phobic and still validate those baseless fears.

if you were a trans woman you'd understand how frightening it is to enter woman's bathroom, for reasons such as those you've mentioned. no, i am not a fascist. there are no discussions that can be considered sound from an ethical standpoint when it comes to viewing me as a human or subhuman, a position which you find is "worthy to discuss". bye!

I was merely stating that if cis woman feel that sharing that space with trans women is not safe or ideal for them then they should have the right to express that opinion, be heard and have a discussion on it.

You're being intellectually dishonest though, because you know that a new physical bathroom is not going to appear out of thin air, so that women can be segregated into different own restrooms.

And you also know that some women are not going to be refused the restroom while others are going to be able to use it.

And finally you know you're not going to be able to force some women to use the men's restroom.

The only thing that leaves is that those that are uncomfortable with it to basically try to get over it, and mind their own business, especially if there's privacy stalls for each individual when using the restroom.

And yes, you're allowed and encouraged to express yourself. But it has to be done in a way that is a benefit to society and doesn't tear it down. You have to be intellectually honest if you actually want to solve issues.

You have to adapt to the world, not have the world adapt around you.

So what you're saying is that people should have the right to say openly transphobic things, but also others don't have the right to point out they are saying (and therefore being) transphobic, and that kind of speech isn't welcomed here?