this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
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here's why I honestly think it keeps going this way:
men keep seeking symapthy for this in public, from mixed gender groups including women.
women have no reason to be sympathetic to men in this case, as they have already had it shitty and these same men didn't care when it wasn't their problem
some of these same men seeking sympathy are actively blaming women and saying that the fix to their problems is to go back to the 1950s, when women were routinely lobotomized for men's convenience (the guys pitching 1950s USA always leave that bit out).
I mean...
Writing off an entire gender because of the actions of some is absolutely insane. Men represent 50 percent of the population. In any other context that would be considered bigoted without a second thought.
Likewise, the idea that it's the same men is straight up fiction. A teenager today was born in the 2000s. They have literally nothing to do with historical sexism.
Finally the "I had to suffer so it's your turn" is beyond shitty. All that mentality is going to do is breed resentment. I'm pretty sure it already is, and alt righters are leveraging this shit to radicalize a small but increasing amount of young men.
I had issues growing up. Some of that was related to women, but a lot of that was related to social isolation in general. When I say I'd probably kill myself in growing up as a boy in today's world, I'm not joking.
'no sympathy from me this time, get it from other men' does not equal 'writing off an entire gender'.
I get that you guys think you should have instant sympathy from me for some reason because some of you are feeling slightly suicidal. Let me illustrate for you in living color why this woman is having trouble having sympathy:
This illustrates a scientific truth that we have less sympathy for people facing things that we've overcome ourselves, especially if we feel we've overcome a 'harder' version. Imagine how hard I laugh (or how much I want to smash something) when a guy says "women have it too easy now".
young men don't need to be told that 'women are writing them off' because we aren't rushing to comfort them (at cost to ourselves). They need to fucking adapt without women's help, and they need to understand that women not having time to help them or be sympathetic to them anymore is a side-effect of women being fucked by the system too, not because of women 'having too much freedom'.
At no point did anyone in this thread ask for you to comfort men.
I made a comment saying young men had it hard. You took it upon yourself to dismiss their struggle. Then you took it upon yourself to say their struggle doesn't matter because women have it worse and anyone who brings it up is a sexist. then you took it upon yourself to blame young men today for sexism in society that existed before you were born.
I'm asking for basic empathy towards your fellow human being. I'm wasn't even asking for you specially to have empathy, just society in general.
I am truly sorry for what you experience. However, misfortune isn't a competition. Just because women have it worse doesn't mean it's okay for men to have their own problems.
This whole comment thread is taking place in the context of a guy who is responding to a meme about creepy pua teachings (you know, the thing that causes all the abuse I suffered) with 'whaa men have it so hard', an I'm being called unempathetic and accused of whataboutism. Thick irony fellas.
Look I don't mean to be callous but I don't think that your dad molested you because he watched some PUA videos on YouTube.
Look I dont mean to blow your mind but misogyny ain't new and these pua fucks have been saying the same things in different spaces for all of human history. My dads generation was 'locker room talk'
So deal with the reality that pua beliefs are as harmful as I say they are, or deny it - I dont give a fuck anymore.
Look I've been in a lot of locker rooms.
First, most of the talk is some vaguely homoerotic stuff about other men's bodies and what their workout routine is.
Even when it is more misogynistic, it in no way, shape or form involves casually taking about pedophilia or molesting your relatives.
Here's donald trump talking on public radio about wanting to fuck his daughter and peeping on kids: https://people.com/politics/donald-trump-howard-stern-interviews-crude-comments-women/
here he is defending his shit as locker room talk: https://youtu.be/QDjDPRk3nPY?t=33
Your opinion is fine. but there's lots of guys like trump and my dad out there that disagree with you. and they chat about peeping on kids and wanting to fuck their daughters
Trump also claimed he could destroy a hurricane by nuking it.
I am telling you, it is not at all common to discuss being a pedophile.
You're taking an extreme minority of men and using it as an excuse to villify all men. You know, a full half of the population.
you're asserting its an extreme minority but Trump's popularity among men begs to differ. These pedophilia apologists elected the man. I would have agreed with you more before 2016. Mask off moment for american men imo.
and if you're not american I'm sorry for assuming, thats the context Im living in and thats the context Im speaking of.
42 percent of womem voters voted for Trump. I don't see you making sweeping statements about them.
Also
35 percent of eligible male voters didn't even vote.
Among those 18-29, a full 50 percent didn't vote.
Among men 14-17, exactly 0 percent voted.
well at least thats still an actual minority, instead of a majority vote like the male side.
and yes you're correct the older the person the more skew for trump, which goes back to my point that plenty of these old fucks heard locker room talk about peeping on young girls, and did not bat an eye
maybe you're a young guy who is honestly underestimating the misogyny of your elders
You are judging people today for things they had nothing to do with on the basis of their sex.
Like how do you not see that as fucked up?
You think Im judging all men but I'm only judging men who spread PUA bullshit, which they have responsibility for. Sorry you can't get it.
Okay serious question: how old are you?
old. how old are you?
I'm 28.
So you're an honest to God adult judging people under the age of 25 for things they not only had no part in, but were largely perpetuated by people who are most likely dead?
I'm an honest to god old women on the internet who has been in tech spaces since the 90s, so I have seen (and felt) the impact of these ideologies very personally, and yes I hold people over the age of 18 responsible for their own actions. If they believe in PUA bullshit then yes I judge them for it. Are you shocked?
Either you're adults or you're not. I can't afford to coddle these young men anymore, it's damaging to me and all women - and coddling them hasn't helped.
Wake the fuck up to the fact that like, 100 rich guys are essentially slowly enslaving most of humanity, and THAT is your problem, and stop attacking women. We're running out of time and I'm out of patience.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Are you in a relationship? If so how does your husband feel about your feelings towards men?
he can understand that I dislike misogynists, not men
how does your mom feel about you minimizing women's problems on the internet and claiming that you know the truth about locker room talk to invalidate their lived experiences?
I don't know about my mom, but my SO thinks you're all insane POSes who give women a bad name.
maybe call your mom
I'm sorry to hear that you've faced hardship. But if you don't learn to feel empathy towards others, you're going to continue to live in hate. Your continued hate towards men and men's issues are not going to make you a better person and you will die alone. And you might be fine with that. Your pedophile father is not a men's health issue. He's just a shithead. Your CEO sexually assaulting you is not a men's health issue. He's just a shithead. Everyone dislikes them. Men and women.
Also, people are learning. The result of that learning is people learned to stop interacting with the other gender more. Men just don't talk to women anymore on workplaces for fear of backlash. And if there are very small number of women is said workspace, they feel isolated because men don't want to deal with potential behavior like yours. More and more people are just choosing to be single from both genders.
The fact that there is asymmetry in genders will always exist. And frankly, I don't think there can be complete equality, I think that's neither attainable or desirable. Are we going to start demanding 50% of construction workers need to be women too? Are we going to try to have 50% quota of people in prison be a woman? That's insane, right? The best we can do is to empathize as much as possible with all other humans and understand both men's issues and women's issues. Validating a men's issue doesn't devalue a women's. You are being an unempathatic whataboutist because you feel your issues are more important to you. We are not saying your problems didn't exist nor should we not try to do our best to solve future issues of that nature. All problems should be fixed the best we can.
If you can't empathize with men's problems. The men who face these issues will refuse to empathize with women's problems. That's how relationships between any sets work. It's a two way street. You're working to create a segregated sets instead of trying to find the middle ground. You're actually directly working against your own goals by being like this.
Haha, I don't hate all men, I'm in a relationship, and you will see my usual activity on social media is moderating a laughter subreddit.
But I don't have any empathy for men who believe that men are the main victims of PUA teachings, or that men are uniquely disadvantaged - they're already not empathetic to me, obviously, because they are dismissing that these teachings harm women more than men. Pot calling kettle black?
And I dont agree that coddling these men helps them. They are already too far into the victimhood mindset. Thats the source of their problems, that and economic back-sliding of the working class in general. If their violence and anger solicits help from women that teaches exactly the wrong things.