The most important priority of European governments is to secure their continent. The European security order hinges on holding Russian President Vladimir Putin’s imperialist ambitions at bay. On the day that Trump won reelection, Dmitry Medvedev, the deputy chair of Russia’s Security Council, announced that “the objectives of the special military operation [in Ukraine] remain unchanged and will be achieved”—a rejoinder to Trump’s campaign pledge to end the war immediately. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has signaled that he might be willing to agree to a cease-fire that includes some loss of territory in exchange for credible security guarantees such as Ukraine’s admission to NATO and support for its defense. But Keith Kellogg, the incoming U.S. special envoy for Ukraine and Russia, has said that the United States should bring Ukraine to the negotiating table by withholding weapons and suggested that a cease-fire built on Ukraine’s acceptance of a de facto long-term Russian occupation of eastern Ukraine could be on the table. And although Zelensky wants NATO membership and ongoing U.S. military aid to ensure that the rest of the country remains independent and sovereign, neither the United States nor Russia currently seems ready to agree to such terms.

It's a 180 which I've been fearing with Trump, but still seems hard to believe.

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[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Trump will go to talk with Putin, and come back saying something like “I went up to him and laid down the law, told him you can’t do that, and the USA will destroy you if you do that, and he surrendered, and from now on Russia is going to be a force for peace and stability”, and then announce that the US is lifting all sanctions and providing military aid to Russian “peacekeepers”, while imposing sanctions on the “rebel Zelenskyy regime”. And the press will timidly go along with it, turning on a dime to describing Ukrainian forces as they were ISIS or someone, and running a scoreboard of allied success against the enemy. After a convicted rapist and insurrectionist was elected and universally anointed as legitimate, I’m not convinced that there is enough object persistence in the US corporate media for this not to happen, or that anyone who notices that there’s something hinky won’t just shut up and file it away with all their other low-level doomscrolling anxiety.

[–] bizzle@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (3 children)

the US is lifting all sanctions

The main effect of sanctions is to stop Russia from selling oil to the EU. That isn't going to change simply because Trump says so.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 day ago

Also, while in practice SWIFT is controlled by joint western interests, Belgium has control of it, not the US.

If the US is not of one mind about lifting that part, if it can get bogged down in Congress, it's going nowhere, as the Belgians will def not go along with Trump.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Though if they can just place an order with Texas Instruments for a few containerloads of milspec semiconductors, and be treated with the respect due to big customers, rather than play games with shell companies in Kazakhstan and black-market imports, it will make their war production a lot more efficient.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The EU could respond by fining or banning imports from companies that support the Russian war effort.

If TI were forced to choose between the EU market and Russia, they would choose the EU.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That’s assuming that the EU acts as a bloc. They already have Orban and Fico as spoilers, and if AfD and/or Le Pen come to power, the Putinists may have a quorum to hole any solidarity on Ukraine below the waterline. At the end of the day, it may be just Poland, Finland and the Baltic states whistling past the graveyard while Rheinmetall makes howitzer barrels for Russia and delivers them to its Western front via Hungary.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Sure, my point is that it won't all come down to Trump.

If Western countries abandon Ukraine en masse, that's a very different situation. But I don't think they will.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 2 points 2 days ago

The likelihood of countries abandoning Ukraine increases with each country that does so, and the US throwing its considerable weight behind Russia would make the unthinkable thinkable, at least in countries far enough from the front that they could tell themselves that the idea of trading everything east of the Oder for cheap gas is not in any way likely to backfire on them, or that handing Putin the lives of tens of millions is not cowardice but high-minded, principled pacifism.

[–] EuroNutellaMan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Nations east of Germany will never abandon Ukraine, save Hungary and Slovakia which are already doing so. But western and southern Europe are already doing that because we're privileged cunts who will probably not even be bombed in the event of a war with Muscovy. Even as Muscovy is sabotaging our shit, something we would have never allowed 10 years ago. We honestly shoukd probably get bombed ffs we kinda deserve it.

[–] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 1 points 2 days ago

If this ends with russia sending the US cheap oil and american partisans blowing up refineries, I am going to need a new bingo card.