There’s nothing wrong with that particular demographic or anything, but it doesn’t feel like a win to me if the entire fediverse is just one big monoculture.

I wonder what it is that is keeping more diverse users away? Is picking a server/federation too complicated? Or is it that they don’t see any content that they like?

Thoughts?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, Lemmy's UI is very bad. It would be pretty easy to improve it, if only developers understood this. But I think the part that new users complain about the most is federation. At least I've seen many posts and comments saying that it's too confusing.

[–] loics2@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think it's necessarily the job of the developers, the main issue IMO is that there's not enough involvement from other specialists such as designers in open-source communities.

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sometimes I try to help, but unfortunately not everyone is willing to listen. I've noticed there are multiple reasons why UI might be bad in a Free Software project:

developers are not UI experts and they don't know better
developers are not UI experts and they don't listen to experts or UI is not their priority
the UI code is so bad that changing it would require rewriting most of the application and nobody has the time to do that, so there is nothing that can be done (this probably doesn't happen in web apps)

I believe in Lemmy's case it's mostly the 2nd point.

[–] NathanUp@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

IDK about Lemmy devs, but point 2 is so, so common. Making a point about UX or accessibility in 99% of FLOSS project discussion spaces is incredibly stressful; you can have user research, industry best practice, and years of experience on your side, but you're inevitably met with dismissal and argument. Devs often treat designers as though they're a bunch of artsy crystal-healing crusties, despite the fact that good UX people base their work on actual research and theory grounded in human behavior and psychology. (Calling use of basic design principles "eye candy" for example) Of course, if a dev makes a decision on technical grounds, it must be treated as scripture as far as any remaining designers on the project are concerned. It's no wonder so many FLOSS projects have abominable UX.

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

True. I feel like usually anything I say about UI is interpreted as just my opinion, which in developer's minds is just as valid as anyone else's opinion. It maybe kinda makes sense, since those developers don't really know me, but there is nothing I can say to change their minds. So they remain stuck with a bad, inefficient design for no good reason.

GNOME desktop environment is a good example that having a good UI is possible.

In Lemmy's case users are forced to take matters into their own hands: !plugins@sh.itjust.works

[–] NathanUp@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Exactly. I once made a point about excessive indicators of visual / information hierarchy increasing cognitive load without additional benefit on a subreddit and got downvoted to oblivion. That was not my opinion; that's what industry research indicates!

Got to say though, I think GNOME is pretty, but a usability nightmare.

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not based on the same 30 years old design that all popular operating systems are. So it might take some time to learn how to use it. Is that what you meant or do you think that it's badly designed?

Here is an interesting video about this topic: https://youtu.be/GkxAp2Gh7-E

[–] NathanUp@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yea, I think they make honest to god bad design decisions that hurt usability. A common thread is hiding features / reducing discoverability while making no attempt at progressive disclosure, requiring memorization to complete certain tasks with the interface. This isn't only bad UX, it's an accessibility issue for users with attention and/or memory deficits. Creating a new paradigm is one thing, but with that comes the task of building affordances that help users with the transition, like skeumorphism did back in the day (...and to an extent, skeumorphism should have never been abandoned in the way it was...), something that the GNOME project simply does not do. They also ignore common accessibility recommendations, for example, by using icons without text in their applications, and utilizing mystery-meat navigation methods like hamburger menus, and ignoring long-established patterns for even very basic tasks, like allowing titlebars to become cluttered with interface elements leading to confusion when the user wants to move the window and widgets are in the way. I don't think it's bad at all that the GNOME project is trying to build their own paradigm, but they do so without consideration for the most fundamental usability guidelines.

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I see. I haven't thought of that before, but when I look at Windows 11 file explorer, the one in GNOME seems way easier for me to understand despite it having the flaws that you mentioned. Maybe I just got used to it.

[–] NathanUp@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yea, I get you. That's why usability research is so important - these interfaces may be simple for you and I, but small issues / contributors to increased cognitive load make a big difference for the large majority of people who do not live and breathe computer interfaces. I get that not everyone can afford to conduct their own studies, but that's why small orgs (and even modestly funded FLOSS projects) need to be making use of the work of players like the Nielsen Norman group who release their reports very affordably, even if they have an expert on hand. I always try to remember that every interface is contrived, so there is no such thing as an "intuitive" computer or machine interface; interface usability lives or dies with discoverability.

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

That is true, good point.

[–] erasebegin@lemmy.fmhy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What is an alternative to a hamburger menu for a mobile layout?

[–] NathanUp@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are many options; it just takes a bit of creativity, and it's better to involve the designer in the early planning stages to nail down what needs to be immediately accessible, and what can be revealed via progressive disclosure. I did a website for a beverage company a few years back that used a bottom-aligned series of pills for the navigation that scrolled horizontally - a shadow appeared on the side to indicate that it can be scrolled. (We used JS to add shadow to any side which had overflowing elements. See below for a very rough little wireframe.) Twitter, like many sites and apps, also used to have no hamburger menu if you can remember.

A mockup illustrating the navigation system described above

[–] erasebegin@lemmy.fmhy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Hmm, that's interesting, thank you ☺️ I bet you're expensive

[–] NathanUp@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Also, I always have to have a chuckle when I see what clients produce on their own. Like, they'll cheap out and produce absolute garbage that they're somehow happy with, but the minute you, a design professional, submit a concept or mockup that is far beyond their ability to produce, the client is absolutely full of feedback: "Make the logo 5x bigger!" "Let's use this barely visible shade of blue!"

[–] CommunityLinkFixer@lemmings.world 2 points 1 year ago

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using an URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !plugins@sh.itjust.works