this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
6 points (80.0% liked)

politics

18898 readers
3463 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
  2. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  3. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  4. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
  5. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  6. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Commentary: Longtime former Republican on Patrick Deneen and the demise of the conservative intellectual

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is incorrect.

There is a such thing as a "conservative intellectual". It's just that they've been long since drowned out by the rest of the party, and the right-wing voting base has no appetite for actual, sensible conservative policies right now.

[–] steakmeout@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

You could read the article instead of just responding to the headline.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Name one conservative policy that has furthered mankind. Prohibition, voting rights, sexuality, drug war, terrorism; time after time they’ve been wrong. Even fiscally they run up the deficit. Their only role is to preserve hierarchy and maintain power

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

George W Bush massively expanded US Free Trade agreements. We went from 3 to 16 under his admin. That's good for the entire world.

Pretty much the only thing I don't like about Biden is his protectionist stance.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m gonna assume you think Capitalist expansion and colonialism is a good thing.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The former, yes, the latter I bet we have significant disagreements on the definition of

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tangentially, if you’re interested in rabbit holes, there’s a book by Matt Kennard called Silent Coup that deals with corporate influence over trade, it looks at the agreements countries have to sign to get corporations into their countries.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm well aware of this process and support it. Countries are welcome to make any deals they'd like. They're presumably intelligent, independent entities making decisions in their own best interest.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So you’re in favor of BRICS and the devaluation of the petrodollar, if those countries choose to do that?

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I recognize their right and potential desire to do it, but I think the likely economic responses and ensuing global downturn isn't worth the eventual possible payoff for them

As an example of an actual unpopular opinion I have, I think it's good that countries sell Nestle their water rights and then buy water back from them, if it results in a large enough economic impact for their nation.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Why do you think that opinion is unpopular?

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe they did the maths and think it’s worth it. The “PetroYuan” sounds weird

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am quite confident that the dollar will remain the world currency, likely until we move to a single world currency in the far future.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You don’t think Nestle or other corporations ever do wrong? Maybe your friends think they do

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Everyone does wrong at some point, including all businesses. Corporations aren't monoliths

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

So it’s okay if Nestle exploits an entire community as long as it serves the greater good?

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Name one conservative policy that has furthered mankind.

Richard Nixon was at the helm when the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) was founded. I believe he also was responsible for protecting national parks, but I didn't bother fact-checking that one.

https://www.epa.gov/history#:~:text=EPA%20was%20created%20on%20December,human%20health%20and%20the%20environment.

Now, granted, modern conservative politics are garbage-culture war bullshit, but we need to be cautious of forgetting history. Rewriting history is their game.

[–] sauerkraus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Progressive policies implemented during a conservative presidency don’t seem like conservative policies.

[–] BobosGonnaeGetYe6@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you can just hijack any and all "good" policies as inherently progressive then you're just a self-fuelling fire who wants to hate conservatives no matter what.

[–] sauerkraus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I wouldn’t be crediting them with enacting good policy if it wasn’t progressive.

If you can show an example of opposing progress that is good I’m all in on that conservative policy.

The ESA was not good because it maintained the status quo. It was good because it was progressive. The fact that it was implemented during a conservative presidency is irrelevant.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're buying in too much to the branding of big-P Progressive. The EPA, and environmental protections, are inherently little-c conservative positions.

Not everything that is good is Progressive, and not everything Progressives want is good, or even intelligent. Rent control, as one very basic example, doesn't work, and yet Progressives across America push it.

[–] Tigerfishy@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What doesn't work about it? (I honestly know nothing about it, but I know there are things that sound great on paper and propaganda but in practice it's bull)

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Rent control disincentives building new apartments, because there is little financial incentive in doing so in an area choked by supply shortages, thus it exacerbates supply shortages over time.

See here: https://www.nmhc.org/news/articles/the-high-cost-of-rent-control/

Note that this is not theoretical - we've seen rent control attempted to poor effect worldwide

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Go ahead and list an example of one of those past conservative intellectuals and we'll see how long it takes to dig up an example of them saying something like Civil Rights protesters are all secret communist agents or that child labor and vagrancy laws and debtors prisons are good things.

Like, I get the appeal in wanting to believe the other side is just as smart and well meaning as our side is, but there's just no basis for that in the historical record. They've always been like this and we just keep forgetting.

[–] Zorque@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One can be an intellectual and still a huge piece of shit. Theyre not mutually exclusive. People like Milton Friedman or Henry Kissinger a undebatably intellectuals... but that doesn't mean they're angels. It just means they wield their intellect as a whip to beat their opponents with, rather than raising society as a whole.

Honestly this whole "conservatives are just a bunch of dumb rabid animals" is they exact sentiment they want us to feel. Because then we never look at the deeper issues that are actually affecting our world.

[–] sauerkraus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For example, Karl Marx. Clearly an intellectual as evidenced by his writings. But his colorblind/radical centrist take on minority rights fits right in with modern conservative extremists. And then the way he framed his opinions led to far right authoritarian regimes co-opting the label of communism.

[–] m532@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Muh nazis were akschually leftwing and communists rightwing... Typical nazi tactic

[–] sauerkraus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

If you think that right wing authoritarianism is communism, I’ve got a democratic republic to sell. The only way tankie logic is consistent is if you believe that Nazis were socialists and North Korea is democratic. But somehow those are not true yet the USSR was communist? You gotta stop gulping down the imperialist propaganda. I could forgive someone for believing it during the Red Scare, but these days there’s no excuse.

Tankie apologetics are a farce.

[–] m532@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

You are the imperialist here, yankee. Did you send tanks into iraq, huh? Will you call me a judeo-bolshevik now?

[–] LexiconDexicon@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is National Socialism not real socialism?

[–] sauerkraus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Since you capitalised National Socialists like a proper noun I’ll assume you are referring to Nazis. The answer to that is yes, Nazis were not socialists. Socialists were among the first groups targeted by the Nazis after attaining majority power.

A bit like how communists were oppressed in the USSR, or how democrats are oppressed in North Korea.

The U.S. was more than happy to conflate Marxist-Leninists(tankies) with communists because it made communists look bad. Tankies are all in on continuing to conflate their own ideology with communism because they understand that being proud of right wing extremist ideology is a bad look.

[–] m532@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

Yankeeland is the most fash country, but the fash dont wanna be called fash, so they call the nonwesterners fash. Typical racist tactic.