this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2024
109 points (95.0% liked)

Games

32526 readers
2185 users here now

Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.

Weekly Threads:

What Are You Playing?

The Weekly Discussion Topic

Rules:

  1. Submissions have to be related to games

  2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil

  3. No excessive self-promotion

  4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts

  5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW

  6. No linking to piracy

More information about the community rules can be found here.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
quinten@lemmy.world
shitpostpolice@lemmy.world
Dremor@lemmy.world
Dremor@jlai.lu
109
Are any games using neural networks for better hard AI that doesn't cheat? (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 weeks ago by count_dongulus@lemmy.world to c/games@lemmy.world
42 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Playing complex strategy games for many years, one of the things that irks me the most is that hard AI levels often just give the dumb AI cheats to simulate it being smarter. To me, it's not very satisfying to go against cheating AI. Are any games today leveraging neural networks to supplant or augment hand-written decision tree based AI? Are any under development? I know AI can be resource intensive, but it seems that at least turn based games could employ it.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] szczuroarturo@programming.dev 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Im pretty sure we could make AI in games smarter and/or better than humans for a long time. They are just not fun to play against. You need to have AI that you can win against. What i think should be happening instead of neural networks is the ai should gamble a bit more . The good example is eu4 where on hard difficulty ai will not attack you until its sure it can win..... which makes it more predictable than normal ai beacuse you can reasonably guess whetewer it will attack you and try to outmanouver it. Wheras on normal sometimes it will just attack you if there is a reasonable ( or sometimes even unreasonable ) chance to win which makes normal sometimes( very very very very rarely ) harder difficulty. Now hard difficulty is stil generaly ( 99,9% of time ) much harder due to ai cheats but what i said is a thing. Total war Warhammer 3 could use that in particular to spice things up. Currently attacking army will always attack and defending will defend which makes attacking more advantagous , and the army will always wait for reinforcment . They could for example make it so depending on the army composition ( or even just rng ) the defending army will sometimes attack ( for example when there are only melee combatants ) so that you dont have time to deal damage with mage . Or the opposite. Make it so the attacking army will just stay still and protect the artilery and bombard you with canons it it has lots of artilery . Like you know just some basic strategies so the fights arent always so similar at the begining.

[โ€“] Ephera@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, the easiest thing to implement is omnipotent AI. The code for the AI is executed within the game engine, so you have complete access to any information you want.

You can just query the player position at any point in time, even if there's a wall between the NPC and the player. It requires extra logic to not use the player position in such a case, or to only use the rough player position after the player made a noise, for example.

Of course, the decision-making is a whole separate story. Even an omnipotent AI won't know how to use this information, unless you provide it with rules.

I'm guessing, what OP wants is:

  1. limiting the knowledge of the AI by just feeding it a rendered image like humans see it, and
  2. somehow train AI on this input, so it figures out such rules on its own.