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'I Care About Little Kids Dying': Ocasio-Cortez Hits Back at Fetterman Over Gaza
(www.commondreams.org)
this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
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No one's being called a trumpist or Russian because they oppose genocide, they're being called that because they insist on pretending that splitting the vote in favor of the fascist party won't make the genocide they claim to oppose even worse.
I certainly have by some of the Zionists on here. Even though I've also repeatedly said to vote for Harris, despite also criticizing her and the Biden Administration for their actions on Gaza and capitulation of right-wing framing on immigration
That doesn't stand up to scrutiny when you're talking about a tiny platform full of entrenched pro-genocide centrists. Who do you imagine this vast Russian conspiiiiiiiiiracy to say things centrists don't like on lemmy is going to convert?
We're not talking about a platform of entrenched pro-genocide centrists, we're taking about a platform of predominantly leftists. Now, many of those leftist are capable of critical thinking, so they don't just parrot every half-baked idea they hear just because the person saying it claims to be an Authentic Communist™.
As to who it's supposed to convert, that much is also obvious to any leftist with critical thinking skills: impressionable young idealists. Get them to refuse to support the "pro genocide centrists" out of a noble sense of justice, and the pro-genocide fascists clinch the win. Putin wins, Netanyahu wins, the military industrial complex wins, and those poor schmucks think they stuck it to the man while the fascists laugh their way into the White House.
Yes, we are. We're talking about lemmy.
Yes, Lemmy, predominantly leftist
have you done the leg work of letting your congress critters know you don't support biden or harris on israel and that we need to implement an arms embargo? if not gtfo. until then I will continue to advocate people vote with their conscience. because I have done the work. biden/harris are blinking we need to push harder before the end of the month. I'm literally sitting here with my ballot waiting for harris to make an announcement prior to voting.
Yes.
And you don't understand electoral strategy, clearly. My conscience won't allow me to sit aside while the fascist party wins, increases support of Israel, and spearheads genocide at home and abroad.
Of course I would prefer a candidate that aligned perfectly with my ideals and stood a chance of winning. There is not one. The only rational voting strategy is to select whichever of the viable options is less bad. In this election, that is undeniably Harris.
This game of chicken you're playing has literally never worked. Harris will not pivot of Palestine because you and a bunch of terminally online performative leftists. They'll go to the middle to find moderates if they need to.
No one can compel you to vote rationally, but I will continue to remind you and the people that make the same ineffective argument: if you "win" and Harris loses, things get considerably worse for women, minorities, LGBT, Ukrainian and, yes, even Palestinians.
Neo-libs in a messy connection with AIPAC are by no means perfect, but they are objectively better than the fascists who live Netanyahu and want to help him finish the job in Palestine and nuke Iran. The only people claiming different are those same fascists, and their useful idiots.
well clearly it will and so does harris' since shes unwilling to commit to not enabling a genocide. pretty low bar shes failing to step over to get some easy votes. no one has said she isn't allowed to defend israel if they're attacked. shes just needs to commit to enforcing the law on the books about supplying arms to countries commiting genocide.
And you're correct no one can compel me to vote rationally. the funny thing about acting rationally is that the definition of rationality is that it depends on the goal. My goal is to get harris to commit to upholding our laws on not selling to genocidal maniacs like bibi. Harris needs my vote (and others) to do so. just like she needs my vote to protect all those groups you mentioned, which if she was committing to a policy that endangered them I'd do the same thing.
first they came for the palestinians, but I was not a palestinian so I didn't speak out.... seem familiar?
so email your critters let them know you support a embargo on israel and that you want harris to make a commitment in the next week and if she does you have my vote and likely 40K minimum more in a swing state. worry about the zionists another day they'll be fine. all you need to do is give harris permission. go forth and do so, repeatedly daily for the next week.
Israel is an ally. She can't get those easy votes without losing votes from moderate Israel-supporters. If those moderates outnumber the view she could get, she winda up with a smaller total. Why would she do that?
Well then your actions are irrational because they do not help accomplish your goal, despite your fantasies to the contrary.
Eh, she needs enough votes. She doesn't need yours specifically. If she can't get yours, she'll shill to moderates to get theirs, because strategically that's much smarter than alienating a large, reliable bloc in order to gain a portion of the much smaller, much less reliable bloc you represent.
Again, doesn't need yours, just enough. You can be part of that "enough", or force her to look elsewhere.
How exactly are the Palestinians, or the other minorities down your slippery slope, supposed to benefit by Harris losing? Harris is in a complex quagmire restricted by geopolitical red tape and AIPAC funding. The other guy loves Bibi and wants to help him finish the job.
Done, like a year ago.
This is pure nonsense. On multiple levels. I'll leave you to your delulu
Any voters she would lose are far outweighed by the amount of voters she'd get. It's about 5:1 from what the polls indicate, or about a +6 point gain. Quite significant considering how dead-locked the race is right now
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Yes, we call this 'enabling' and its bad. if my friend goes and murders someone in cold blood I don't go 'oh well they're my friend' I fucking turn them in so they can get the help they clearly need.
No one is asking her to not protect israel. but fun fact: they're not moderates if they're supporting a genocide.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act. personally I only decide how I can act. and seems like others agree with me and not you since harris can't find votes.
you actually don't know that. and neither does she. shes just scared as are you. I'm about as reliable as they come for votes; I show up every year and vote for people who represent me. if there are none, I show up for the ballot initiatives and leave the candidates blank. Its hardly my fault the DNC didn't run a real primary to find the best candidate this year because we know harris wouldn't have won.
samesies, do it again, repeatedly this week. =) they weren't willing to do shit a year ago because they didn't need the votes. now is the time to give them permission.
yes, pure nonesense.
not my fault harris is floundering for votes. I can't help that shes committed to a platform that has historically low approval and is unwilling to commit to anything not even a bar as low as 'not commiting genocide' shrug.
if she had a solid platform she wouldn't be floundering. I can't do anything about that except clearly broadcast my expectations to the democratic party. which i'm doing daily. you are of course free to do nothing. but harris needs votes to win and I'm letting her know how to get mine. balls in her court.
heres my fence, lets see if she can get over it!
Unfortunately, elections are a popularity contest, not a morality test. It doesn't matter what's right, it matters what enough voters in the right states approve of.
This reflects her stated position, but here you are saying it's not good enough.
It must be a strange sensation seeing it from the other side. Your entire strategy is based on assumptions about how others will act. The difference is that your assumptions are based on pure unsupported fantasy, while mine are based on historical evidence.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
Sure, hold your nose, and when Trump wins you can snuggle say you didn't directly vote for him, it's not your fault LGBT people are getting carted off to camps, it's not your fault women are legally considered breeding stock, it's not your fault Palestine is a sheet of glass, it's not your fault we pulled aid from Ukraine and sent it to Israel. Harris should have done more to seduce you into supporting human rights, it's her fault you helped the greater evil.
agreed, and shes losing; all I can do is try and help by telling her what will get mine and apparently other votes.
the past does not predict the future. but it rhymes. and the past shows the democrats run to the right and lose. looks in harris' direction
I've only made a single claim on how others will act and it was a group that literally said 'stop the arm shipments to gaza' and there are 100k of them in an important swing state.
correct. you see its a popularity contest, and apparently shes not winning and doesn't know how to. a shame really. if only the DNC ran a real primary when faced with a historically disliked administration. well you lose some, you win some. but it is a shame and its a shame you wouldn't put in the effort for all those groups you're trying to place on my plate. my vote is here for the taking. its a shame she couldn't check a single box on my list. I hope she pulls it off but for some reason it seems like she wont.
its funny you think your giant list of minority groups who actually have rights and trump wont be able to take them away by himself is more important to me than the 40k people already murdered and million + put at risk by the biden admin inability to have a spine. its why he lost support (among a plethora of other issues, like union busting) and just slapping harris' name on the top of the ticket won't change that outcome. sorry but the deaths are the greater evil. I will not choose between the minority groups. you can compromise if you wish I won't.
Are you doing the legwork of telling her directly?
You must be looking at a different past than the rest of us.
Your entire premise is that your choice will cause a candidate to alter their behavior
I'd wager she checks quite a lot of them, when considering the alternative. Status quo is not ideal, but it is better than marked backsliding, which is what you're gambling.
Uh, yeah. The entire problem is that there is a broadly successful campaign to install federalist cronies across as many seats as possible. Supreme Court, lower courts, EPA, USPS, DoE, everything. They published it. He's not by himself.
Which is different than the entire history of the state of Israel how? Your alternatives are an unbroken trend of spineless opposition, and enthusiastic support. I do not consider enthusiastic support to be an acceptable risk in my electoral stratagems.
The deaths will not decrease under the alternative evil, in fact they will most certainly increase under the other evil. That would by embarrassingly simple logic make that alternative the greater evil, and the evil in question the lesser evil. Who was it that just said Biden was being too tough on Bibi?
yes, every person in my congressional animal pen knows where i stand and that they should pressure her. harris has no personal interest in my vote since she will comfortably win in my state. however my critters know i'm watching them and my friend circle has done the same.
let me be clear here: I have a laundry list of issues with harris' platform. there is literally nothing on there that I can about directly:
my ask from harris is to commit to doing the one thing she can 100% do herself as a president and thats commit to israel's safety while preventing from them genociding. if that requires giving israel a small bloody nose by not protecting them in the UN and stopping arms shipments. fine and many jews in the US agree on this.
Im telling people vote with their conscience on harris, why? because it'll get them to the poll booth, jill/claudia might get their vote instead of harris but know what else? the down ballot democrats are more likely to get their vote. thats more important than trump/harris. if trump wins but democrats get the majority in both houses and we keep them we'll be fine.
na just have a different slant. most of the time the democrats run on shitty positions like anti-gun and border nonsense. but ignore things like labor rights, healthcare, and education, and the economy. thats why they lose.
yes, because thats how voting works, and why my state is literally a single party state.
no, thats what all of you're are gambling, including harris, you'll vote for her because shes not trump. she has your vote. know what votes she doesn't have? the 100k in michigan whose friends and family are being genocided by her policies.
what the fuck are you going on about? lol no one is saying abandon the jews, just stop giving them weapons until they stop being literally genocidal morons over there. you know, follow our fucking laws on arm sales.
you have no idea what evil is. the fact you are trying to brow beat people over a person willing to throw a minority group under the genocidal bus is mind boggling considering all the evil you're talking about is literally a bunch of minority groups whom have been thrown under various busses. now I have to wonder which other ones will she through under the bus of joy and alleged law and order.
As I said, call your congress critters, demand they stop arms to israel and that they pressure harris and then vote with your heart on election day. if thats jill/claudia/harris it doesn't matter. I'm more interested in getting people to the booths for all the local and down ballot issues.
now if you don't support protecting the palestenians and think israel should be slaughtering them then thats on you and you're far more evil than any person voting 3rd party. I'm just happy they voted regardless of their feelings on harris.