Today I Learned
What did you learn today? Share it with us!
We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.
** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**
Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
Partnered Communities
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
Community Moderation
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
view the rest of the comments
TBH, I think the Israel iron dome system is justified. Bombing Palestinians is not.
One is defensive and one is a genocide over land. Not really a hard choice for sane people.
It could be argued that Israel is free to unleash their campaign of genocide because the people in Israel do not experience the horrors themselves. There is no pressure to reach an agreement. Bringing the hostages back has been the only rallying cry by Israelis, but other than that, actually ending the genocide doesn't have much support.
It's similar to how so many consumer goods are produced through the use of slavery. That distance and lack of visibility mean there is little pressure from consumers to stop those practices.
The iron dome enables the genocide.
Not really a hard choice for sane people.
So basically, your perspective is that a system that protects Israeli civilians is immoral because every single Israeli is immoral? Yeah, that seems very sane. /s
Defense of a state that is actively engaging in genocide is a problem.
The Iron Dome stops attacks on military targets, blame Israel for hiding behind civilians as it launches its missiles and drones from US provided safety.
We do blame Israel. In the mean time, this piece of technology is actively saving the lives of innocent people. Of all the weird things to be upset about, the one that's explicitly defensive maybe the weirdest.
This is bordering on misinformation but I'm not going to act on that.
The Iron Dome is primarily used to protect civilians, although it may also incidentally or occasionally be used to protect military targets as well.
Israel does not use its own citizens as cover for military operations. Here is a map of military bases in Israel, which are separate from civilians as required by international law.
There is no similar map of military sites in Gaza because Hamas uses civilian cover for military operations, including launching international attacks, from schools, mosques, churches, and hospitals.
you're right, the Palestinians they literally drag around as human shields aren't citizens, they are just the people who lived on the land before the Israeli state decided that Palestine never existed. They do however make great reactive armor.
but that's also not new
Operation Shark. This is literally Palestine taking a page from proto isrealis terrorists which by the by dug a significant amount of the smuggling tunnels which is also how Israel know they exist.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/14/israeli-forces-in-gaza-use-civilians-as-human-shields-against-possible-booby-traps
Oh so much better if they don't use their own civilians...
Implying that Israel gives even the remotest shit about international law seems like misinformation.
IIRC correctly Geneva conventions only apply if both sides adhere to it
Iron enables the genocide.
Not really a hard choice for sane people.
Nice alt account bro
No idea what that means 😂
There is zero justification for a colonial apartheid ethnostate. Over seventy years of crimes against humanity are not worth defending.
you say there is no justification for a colonial apartheid ethnosate, but if that were true, why "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for our children"
the scary thing is people who would otherwise be against fascism for some strange reason turn off their 1488 detectors when talking about the Nation state of Israel, and will gladly embrace the concept of the ethnostate as a moral good.
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. It's a messed up country, but it's in an extremely messed up part of the world. All of their neighbors are nondemocratic ethnostates, and not even the apartheid kind, they've completely driven Jewish people out of their countries. I don't think standing by and letting Isreal get overrun would be beneficial for the world. I don't support their offensive military actions but that doesn't mean I want to see what happens when Hamas/Hezbollah takes over their country.
you know, leave it to the nazis to cut all that text down to just 14 words
There are plenty of places in the west where they would be safe, secure, and could flourish. Hell, many of them are citizens of these countries. My only concern would be letting such a large amount of fascists migrate when we're already combating the rise of fascism in the west.
That's pretty unrealistic in my opinion. Jewish people see Isreal as their ancestral homeland and they are already risking their lives to stay there. Millions of people would likely die rather than leave.
Two wrongs don't make a right. It was wrong to push out Palestinians, but now that Israeli people have been their for generations it would be wrong to push them out too. There arent many human settlements without a record of eviction and occupation. Even the native American tribes occupied, annexed, and eradicated each other for millenia before Europeans arrived. In my opinion, once you live somewhere for a few generations it's your land and you can't be kicked out- that just adds more suffering to the world.
Oh yes, they've been there for generations so they get to just genocide the people that lives there because it's their land. What the actual fuck?
That is not remotely what I said
That's how they've conducted themselves the entirety of the time they've been there, time for them to leave.
Israel is far from blameless, but their neighbors are far from innocent as well. They have all in the last half century done their best to kill Israeli civilians and take Israel off the map. The real solution here is to pressure Israel into negotiations and a peace settlement that involves a two state solution, which only the US government can do.
Bro. If they take land they're at war and invaders can be killed. I would suggest for kids sake they do not bring their children while hostily occupying a territory they have no legitimate claim to.
Moreover when the founding acts of your country are literal terrorist acts against civilians you lose the right to bitch when the same people slap back.
You're suggesting that if I take your family house I should get to keep it so long as I use force long enough to have some kids.
That's not quite what I said. I said several generations but that's the idea- there is no point in evicting your great-grandchildren due to an illegal and immoral action you undertook.
Suppose the year is 3000 and Israel still exists and the palestinean people still want the land back. The Israeli "occupiers" have now been there for 1000 years. Would you still support giving the land to the Palestinians?
I'm sure you'll be that generous while you and yours live in streets.
The Palestinians have been there iirc 7500yrs, Arab occupation predates organized religion as a whole. Also yes, dumb hypothetical though.
Let's also kick the colonisers out of the US, Canada, and Australia then.
You say that like I wouldn't agree dude, I'm native. Kick em out and me along with them if they so chose.
Well you are dead wrong about that, Jewish people lived in Judea (modern-day Israel) for about 2000 years before being evicted by the Romans in like 300 AD or so. The Arabs did not enter the region until AD 700. So, all told not only did the Jewish people live in Palestine long before the Arabs did, they have also been living their longer.
Does that mean that evicting the Palestinian people to found Isra was justified? I think no, and it has turned out to be a terrible mistake. But what is the difference really between the founding of Israel and your advocacy for evicting the Jewish people who live there now and returning it to the Palestineans?
Those are Arabs dumb dumb.
No, it was shitty colonizers acting like shitty colonizers.
Wait so you're saying the Jewish people of Judea/Kingdom of Israel were Arab? Genetically you kind of have a point (Palestinean people and Jewish are closely related) but culturally they are very different, at least since the founding of Judaism. But even if Jewish people were Arab, wouldn't that mean that they have equal claim to the land with the Palestinians?
No I'm saying the natives of the area predate religion as a whole being part of the world with the longest human occupation.
Similarly some of the familial land that was seized was legitimately held by Arab Muslims since before the creation of any temple let alone their subsequent fall.
Genetically an Arab Israeli and an Arab Jew who have both lived in the same area are within the margin of error for genetics, ie: they're the same and you're a scientific racist.
There are Arab Jewish Israelis, it's a thing. And yes they have equal claim to unoccupied land as any other citizen ( it should be noted stand aren't full citizens in Israel). No one has the right to force you from their home, no one. I bet you cry for landlords too.
I don't really know what you're saying with most of these points, I think you're calling me a racist for trying to interpret your statement about the original Jewish settlers being Arab.
I agree, nobody has a right to force you from your home. I strongly oppose Isreals settlements in the West Bank and their occupation of Gaza. I also oppose calls for their eviction from Israel. Can't you see it's the same thing? "But it was the Palistineans land first" you say- no, that is clearly untrue, Jewish people were living in Israel since the Iron Age, and it was the Arabs (and Romans) that evicted them.
And what's this about land being taken from Arab Muslims to build the Jewish temples? You do know that Jewish people were living in Israel since before Islam was a religion right?
I'm calling you a racist because your using eugenics talking points about genetics to explain your shitty point.
They aren't at all the same thing, you're taking like it's been thousands of years when there are literally people alive who had their land stolen around 1946. That is factually incorrect, the natives that predate Judaism are the stewards of the land, even trying to call biblical Israel a Jewish nation is factually incorrect Ave both the talmud and the Bible back that up.
I never said that, is English your first language because you seem to be fairly confused about straightforward comments.
How about just starving them? Much cheaper!