this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
108 points (89.7% liked)

News

23287 readers
5390 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The news mod team has asked to no longer be a part of the project until we have a composite tool that polls multiple sources for a more balanced view.

It will take a few hours, but FOR NOW there won't be a bot giving reviews of the source.

The goal was simple: make it easier to show biased sources. This was to give you and the mods a better view of what we were looking at.

The mod team is in agreement: one source of truth isn't enough. We are working on a tool to give a composite score, from multiple sources, all open source.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.federate.cc 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don’t think that the mod team has ever said that there is not some valid criticism.

That's not what an inability to engage with feedback means though, it means genuinely listening to the perspectives of others even in cases where it's inconvenient, unexpected, unpleasant, and yes in some cases presented in an offensive manner.

That doesn't mean you need to just allow people to spew hatred and vitriol at you - of course you can call out that kind of behavior where you see it. It's probably fair to say that some Lemmy users would struggle to express themselves on topics they feel strongly about without being offensive.

That said, I suspect that a lot of the vitriol you've encountered on this topic has in some part been provoked by the mods collective reluctance to actually acknowledge the many shortcomings of this bot or any potential reincarnation.

I mean the following in as congenial a manner as possible, but the comment of yours I replied to earlier (regarding the most downvoted comments in the other thread) seemed quite dismissive. You may not have intended it as such, nevertheless that's how it appears. Engaging with that feedback would mean considering the actual content of those comments with a charitable attitude? JonsJava similarly quoting vote counts for the other post as a means to disregard concerns.

Again, in as congenial and constructive a manner as possible, Blackbeard has revealed that there has been some vote manipulation which I acknowledge has frustrated things from your perspective, but again the narrative that "there is a vocal minority opposing the bot and inflating comments in opposition to the bot" is dismissive of the very real issues extant.

I'm not alone in feeling exasperated by the cycle of request feedback > dismiss feedback.

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

None of the feedback has been dismissed. I don't know how to say that any more clearly.

We read every comment. We have worked with other moderators of multiple communities to implement changes based on the feedback we received from the very beginning. This thread is just one of those examples. The mods and users are on the same side in this effort.

Please understand: the only people who are dismissing user feedback are other users when they say things like "no one wants this." That's literally dismissing the many users who express that they find it beneficial. We are working on developing community resources that will meet the needs of most of the people here. That process takes time because we are an asyncronous team of volunteers.

Edit: I should note that the "no one wants this" comment was not meant as a personal attack. I only intended it as a typical example of a reductive, unhelpful, and dismissive comment. I didn't realize until after that you posted another comment on this thread that was substantially similar. My apologies for the inadvertent example.

[–] fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.federate.cc 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Perhaps it is true that you've considered all feedback, but I'm sure you can acknowledge my point that comments from mods suggesting that the most downvoted comments are all opposition to the bot, or that votes on upvoted comments ought to be ignored because of vote manipulation might cause those who are opposed to feel as though their opinions have been dismissed.

Regardless, while I look forward to your response should you wish to offer one, I've had my say and I feel as though I've been heard.

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

I've seen mods suggesting that there is nuance and a diversity of opinion. Its often as a counterpoint to users suggesting that there is monolithic opposition from the users, and mods are forcing something that no one wants. When someone claims to speak for the whole community, then their comment gets dozens of downvotes, those votes are relevant feedback as well.

There is a challenge when portions of the community have mutually exclusive preferences. There is a greater challenge when one portion considers any action based on other's preferences unjustifiable.

[–] Blackbeard@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

or that votes on upvoted comments ought to be ignored because of vote manipulation

No one on the mod team said that. If you're going to appeal that we be honest in our engagement, the least you can do is be honest in yours.

[–] fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.federate.cc 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That was my good faith attempt to paraphrase this comment:

sorting by "top" is equally invalid

I don't think that's a dishonest or disingenuous interpretation.

[–] Blackbeard@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes, cutting a snippet out of a sentence with broader context is a classic form of bad faith argumentation:

if we’re not allowed to point to votes as a source of valid information, then sorting by “top” is equally invalid.

The "if" conditional is pretty fundamental in that sentence. To cut it out and then paraphrase it to mean something it doesn't is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

[–] fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.federate.cc 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The rest of the sentence doesn't change the meaning, nor the point I was making?

[–] Blackbeard@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago