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One Of The Rust Linux Kernel Maintainers Steps Down - Cites "Nontechnical Nonsense"
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Even though I respect and applaud the move towards Rust, I absolutely hate the syntax and a lot of the logic.
Maybe the person in the video secretly feels the same way.
Well, I've been a C/C++ dev for half of my career, I didn't find Rust syntax ugly. Some things are better than others, but not a major departure from C/C++. ObjC is where ugly is at. And I even think swift is more ugly. In fact, I can't find too many that are as close to C/C++ as Rust. As for logic.... Well, I want to say you'll get used to it, but for some things, it's not true. Rust is a struggle. Whether it's worth it, is your choice. I personally would take it over C++ any day.
You should check out C3 if you haven't yet.
When in doubt - C4!
That doesn't really excuse its behavior in the video though.
I just don't understand this. You get used to the syntax and borrow checker in a day or two. It's a non-issue.
I wouldn't say that. For primitives yeah, day or two. But if you want to build a proper program, it'll take time to get used to it. For my first few projects I just used clone everywhere. Passing by reference and managing lifetimes, specially when writing libraries is something that takes time to get used to. I still don't feel confident.
Besides that I do like Rust though. Sometimes I feel like "just let me do that, C let's me", but I know it's just adding safety where C wouldn't care.
I didn't. And I also dislike the methodology behind this way of programming.
But that's personal and doesn't make me want to trashtalk Rust during somebody's talk about it.
Unless you're a functional programming purist or coming from a systems programming background, it takes a lot longer than a few days to get used to the borrow checker. If you're coming as someone who most often uses garbage-collected languages, it's even worse.
The problem isn't so much understanding what the compiler is bitching about, as it is understanding why the paradigm you used isn't safe and learning how to structure your code differently. That part takes the longest and only really starts to become easier when you learn to stop fighting the language.
I see that my previous comment is not the common reality apparently.
I'm mainly a C# + js dev of a few years, and I would love to see what precisely other people here are having problems with, because I've had a completely different experience to most of the people replying.
As someone who spent a couple months learning rust, this was half true for me. The syntax? Yeah. No problem. The borrow-checker (and Rust's concept of ownership and lifetimes in general)? Absolutely not. That was entirely new territory for me.
Could you specify some kind of example where things were hard?
I'll try :) Looks like I still have my code from when I was grinding through The Book, and there's a couple spots that might be illuminating from a pedagogical standpoint. That being said, I'm sure my thought process, and "what was active code and what was commented out and when," will probably be hard to follow.
My first confusion was in ~~deref coercion~~ auto dereferencing (edit: see? it's still probably not 100% in my head :P), and my confusion pretty much matched this StackOverflow entry:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28519997/what-are-rusts-exact-auto-dereferencing-rules
It took me until Chapter 15 of The Book (on Boxes) to really get a feel for what was happening. My work and comments for Chapter 15:
Another thing that ended up biting me in the ass was Non-Lexical Lifetimes (NLLs). My code from Chapter 8 (on HashMaps):
That's insightful, thank you. It wasn't hard to follow, I did have these exact same "adventures" but I guess I forgot about them after I figured out the ways to do things.
Personally these kinds of things are exciting for me, trying to understand the constraints etc, so maybe that's also why I don't remember struggling with learning Rust, since it wasn't painful for me 😅 If someone has to learn by being forced to and not out of their own will, it's probably a lot harder
I tried for about a week: reading documentation, viewing and modifying example programs, using a Rust IDE with warnings for all my silly mistakes, the works. I couldn't manage to wrap my head around it. It's so different from what I'm used to. If I could dedicate like a month to learn it I would, but I don't have the time :/
At rhe beginning, I did hate it. Now I slowly embrace it as it seems like a feature to be mkre verbose.
But maybe it will never change and I will just gaslight myself liking it. Whatever.. you cant take my fun away learning rust for half a year
I would never :)
I hate how I can't do everything I imagine in rust.
But researching about why something isn't possible, makes me realize that the code should never be wroten like the way I did... so I can't blame rust for dissallowing me this.
You've been blue pilled by null. Once over the hurdle, it's very eloquent.
Null is ugly. Tony Hoare apology for inventing it should be enough reason to learn to do better.