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How do you make someone understand that being drafted by force and ordered to invade another country is not a good thing? (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 4 months ago by index@sh.itjust.works to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

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[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago (9 children)

Seems like there are a couple of flaws in your own narrative there.

It doesn’t matter who did what before, Russia had a choice. A choice of resolving their issue in a nonviolent manner through diplomacy, espionage, subterfuge and trade.

Russia did exercise this choice for whole eight years. That's what Minsk agreements were about, and now prominent western officials have come out and admitted on record that the goal of the agreements was in fact to give more time for Ukraine to arm itself.

Instead they chose violence. Thus it doesn’t matter that they had no inkling of wanting to conquer Ukraine (or specifically Putin) or not.

Stoltenberg openly admits that it was in fact NATO that chose violence and refused to negotiate https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm

Second, they absolutely did try to install puppets and Russia-friendly governments before. They succeeded sometimes, somewhat. And the last time those puppets had to flee to Russia of all places to escape the wrath of Ukrainian people.

Last I checked, it was the US that overthrew the democratically elected government and installed puppets. Which is also not exactly the first time that US has done this around the world.

Third, this didn’t start on February 22, 2022, but in 2014, when Russia decided to occupy Crimea. So they didn’t just do it once, but on two occasions. Except the West somehow glossed over the first time on the heels of the Winter Olympics.

Oh you mean when Russia annex Crimea in response to US running a color revolution. I love how you just ignore that little detail there.

I really have to wonder if people like you genuinely believe what you say. It's absolutely incredible if that's the case.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca -1 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Stoltenberg openly admits that it was in fact NATO that chose violence and refused to negotiate https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm

I'm not going to read the whole minutes. Can you quote please what you are referring to?

Last I checked, it was the US that overthrew the democratically elected government and installed puppets. Which is also not exactly the first time that US has done this around the world.

This seems to be whataboutism. Do you have any evidence for the US causing the euromaidan and subsequent revolution? Seems to me like the people were fed up with the shit that ol' Viktor was peddling.

Oh you mean when Russia annex Crimea in response to US running a color revolution.

Did anyone from the West ever conquer anything that belonged to Russia? Russia answered with violence for nothing. Notice how there's a string of attacks on territories that weren't actually Russia's in recent history.

I love how you just ignore that little detail there.

I really have to wonder if people like you genuinely believe what you say. It's absolutely incredible if that's the case.

Classic distraction scheme. Attacking the person instead of the point. Not even sure why I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and engaged with you.

[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

dude, Russia complained to the UN and obviously NATO and the US many many many many many many times. You're being brainwashed by US media, which is 100% ALL controlled by the CIA. For basics, you should simply look at what Russia's foreign diplomats are saying. They speak clearly and don't bullshit. Weigh what the two sides say. Simply put, the US just makes up childish stories with no factual basis behind them and Russia gives long factual history lessons.

[–] AdNecrias -5 points 4 months ago

I agree with you on previous points, but you must know for a fact that Russia has a whole department for rewriting history in their favour that didn't fall with the Soviet Union.

That makes your long factual history lessons claim ridiculous, besides relying on historical Russia to justify current carnage is ridiculous.

NATO driven by the US definitively pokes at several beehives, and once those beehives lose diplomatically (because given the pressure we do it definitely is a loss on the world stage not an agreement) they start stinging.

Russia has an history of brutal governments when it comes to warfare, and in Ukraine they show they still don't refrain from uncontrolled barbarism. It's a bed the West helped do, but comes from an expansionist desire of both Russia and the US.

PS: I'm focusing on the US which has more impact world wide, but we just need to see France in West Africa to see the former empires are still doing their old thing under the table. Bunch of power hungry minorities making live miserable for a larger humanity is something we have everywhere.

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