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'Neoliberal capitalism' has contributed to the rise of fascism, says Nobel laureate
(www.abc.net.au)
this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2024
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Some of the comments in this thread really tell you why it takes a novel laureate to say this. Some of y'all do not have a basic understanding of history, economic systems, or what the term reactionary actually means.
The correct response to "neo liberal capitalism has contributed to the rise of fascism" should be "no shit, Sherlock"
It's truly sad that that isn't 100% of the comments here.
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleed, y'all. That doesn't mean all liberals are fascist, that means that fascism is an outgrowth of liberalism.
And just in case y'all also don't know what that means, "liberalism" in that context isn't "Obama liberal, Bush conservative," it means the political ideology of liberalism, of which both Bush and Obama were proponents of.
ETA: I'm not engaging anymore.. it's not my job to teach y'all the difference between an economic system and authoritarian states. Also, your magic has no power here, I am an anarchist, not a stalinist. Please educate yourselves. If for no other reason, do it to make it easier to pwn the tankies or whatever the fuck
All right then… somehow in all of the history people wanted to get out of socialist/communist countries to the liberal ones so bad, that they had to build walls and shoot the trespassers.
Idk about you but I am gonna stick to the liberalism with solid amount of welfare and public services. However, you are free to move to Cuba or any other plethora of socialist countries to live however you want.
Papers please
Ah yes the vuvuzela argument. Much easier than analyzing what the ideologies actually incentivize and lead to or using your eyes to take a look at the state of the world.
Complete brain rot. If LLMs reacted this way to every mention of socialism we'd think they needed more training. Chat GPT would express more a more nuanced and understanding-demonstrating answer than this. You should consider feeling ashamed.
I understand your frustration but you are misguided and ignorant. Education is truly a blessing to not repeat same mistakes from the past.
I am sure however that you are in extreme minority and pose zero danger to society. My sympathy remains. One has to believe in something. God, ufos or communism.
In a world dominated by capitalist realism I find that an ironic stance.
Socialism isn't only implementable as an authoritarian state, but any attempt to implement it will be met with fierce resistance from "liberal" countries whose ruling class is not threatened by fascism but is threatened by socialism.
You're fighting for the oppressor.
I am not fighting for anything. I am enjoying my life in a capitalist society. Thank you very much.
Enjoy it while you can, capitalism is actively destroying our climate and causing never before seen levels of wealth inequality. Fascism is the inevitable next step and is rapidly approaching. It will not perpetuate much longer whether by self-destruction, or hopefully, by replacement so that we can continue to thrive as a species.
That’s doomer speak from too much scrolling. I once too believed these things for a time but the world hasn’t ended, improved even. I am no longer as depressed and regained clarity of mind.
I hope you too can find peace and see the reason before all the time dwindles out like a sand from between your fingers.
I am typing it lying on my huge bed, with cat at my side, full fridge, iPhone, iPad, car with full tank in the garage, 100 sqm apartment I own in the comfy part of the city. Steady, mostly passive income. Free healthcare working ok, education.
Why would I want communism? I would have to be not okay in the head
Ignoring climate change and its root causes will surely make it go away.
Your zen bullshit is costing future generations.
You got some point with the climate, we should do more for sure. But seeing communism as some kind of holy grail solution is absurd.
Problem is no one wants to resign from all the goodies and comforts. We could solve it overnight if only people truly were ready for sacrifices but everyone uses maximum excuses to not do anything.
Some wait for communism to solve it. Very comfortable position. We all have our scapegoats.
A socialist economy where workers own the businesses means that the people making the decisions will be sensitive to their impact on the average person, rather than multi billionaires building bunkers to survive the collapse.
It means people will not vote to pollute their own water supply to make a buck.
It's not a holy grail, but it's a solution because it makes the economy democratic rather than dictatorial.
Those people barely can avoid trump reign and majority don’t think climate change is real and you think they will be able to handle managing the collective economy? You are very optimistic for a doomer you know.
We barely qualify for representative democracy and you want to make economy into a direct democracy. That’s very cute, no offense.
None of this changes that capitalism is the root problem. You think we need better regulation, which is fine and pragmatic and likely our shortest route, but it's a patch.
You can take those 3 arrows out of your pfp now. Ancap ass or 3-letter agent bullshit is all you espouse. Working class traitor
I am gonna make a screenshot because this is super funny. Do you have more of that lingo? It feels like I was transported back in time to people’s republic. It’s super memeable here.
Crazy westoids think they want communism 😂
Ukrainians would drop their weapons in disbelief, gonna send one this shit
Let me tell you what happened here some time ago.
After the government seized the means of production to people they gave each worker a share in the company.
On that same day the workers sold it or lost it, bought vodka or cigarettes for the few pennies they made. Not much was left in the original hands. Someone bought the majority.
The ideal economic system works perfect under perfect conditions. Capitalism works ok under most of conditions.
Evolution of economic systems is not a history of choosing the perfect one but elimination of these that failed.
That's a poor implementation just like there are myriad poor implementations of capitalism
Okay but there was no good implementation of socialism so far.
Therefore there can never be?
Democracy took a 1.5 thousand year L. France implemented it then reverted to Empire.
You would have been saying democracy can't work.
It was an idea that evolved over the years.
There’s plenty of failed ideas. Maybe capitalism is another one that will be replaced by something better. Only time will tell. It will be exciting if a replacement happens in my lifetime. Bad systems die so no worries but what constitutes a bad system also depends on available resources.
When Empires collapse bad things happen, capitalism is a global Empire. If we let it self destruct we'll destruct with it. It'll collapse, that's certain, but if we just wait then we have no agency over what comes next.
It has to be replaced.
Good luck then. I will be observing these efforts with great interest and some popcorn. Just tell me when the first season starts.
We get it, you're an apathetic obstacle to progress and your descendants will pass judgement on you for that. I hope you continue to stay out of the way, rather than joining other liberals on the fascist side.
Wow. You are mentally ill.
Whatever helps you to dismiss things that make you uncomfortable to think about, right?
No I am just saying. I needed some entertainment for adhd brainz and you were sufficient
except all the ones you are ignoring
As someone who's not a doomer, with her Rage fueled Hope, and Hope fueled Rage:
Deep down, I know you cant believe this status quo can stand for much longer than it has.
If someone earns a dollar they didnt work for, someone else worked for a dollar they didnt earn.
As someone who's transitioned out of economic privilege, I know how hollow all that iPicketFence really is.
You cant really expect others to aspire to that plastic existence.
You can't really believe that endless colonization, that your comfort depending on someone of lower economic class existing, wont eventually result in fascism.
So that's why the "Scratch a lib and a fash bleeds" phrase rings true. Thank you for airing out all your laundry for all to screencap, demonstrating just how that when we discuss what neoliberalism pushes, we can see it for thr prefiguration of a right wing authoritarian regime waiting to cannibalize it's own nation.
Austerity Kills. Food Not Bombs. Housing is a human right. No Human is Illegal. Threats to the bodily autonomy of any Non-Man or Non-White are a threat for all. These are not utopia or naive, these are the bare basic conditions of humanity that have been stolen from the people, and causes for which local organizing today can tangibly improve lives being lived now AND prefigure a society that we can maybe even, someday have good reason to be proud of. Screw the fear, screw the dread, go build some connections with folks who are also putting in the work for these things, it reinvigorates the soul. (And sure helps reduce time spent with your pocket amulet)
Good luck. You gonna need it
And yeah I probably have no need to mask anything online. It’s just a habit
So from now on I will be brutally honest here
No way you even read all that. More proof you're not here in good faith. Dont be surprised noone wants to engage with your mindtrack even in the most milktoast-mild of leftist community. Byyeeeee
Oh I got more than enough of engagement, whole hoard
I don’t even remember what was the original point of it tho. But now I know if I want some cheap laughs I just need to say communism bad on Lemmy and watch the whole flock running to prove otherwise
If you have mostly passive income to pay for all that you are actively taking the gains produced by the labour of others that are most likely not as comfortable as you. Are you ok with that, or do you at least get why people get frustrated at that?
Life ain’t no Disneyland sweetheart. Some are on the losing side and some are the winners.
I will win no matter the system. It’s merely a different set of rules to bend and leverage
I get that being on the winner side is convenient. I am too. I just see that constantly winning seems to lead the world into a pretty bad state overall where, suddenly, noone is a winner anymore.
And all it would take to not get into the disaster scenario would be some redistribution. Doesn't even mean you can't be a winner anymore. Just means you get to win less hard.
I am still not gonna vote for communism and neither socialism. Good luck with that stuff. It’s isolated to niche internet communities for good reasons.
Is that good reason that there is a minority that profits greatly from capitalism that has a majority convinced that they might once also be part of that winning team even though that believe isn't substantiated by any statistics, but the opposite is very much empirical proven?
No the good reason is that communism and socialism cannot exist as realistic economic principles. Now I remember what was it all about.
Communism is a system that lacks any motivation to do the work. There is no award. No gratification of ownership, getting higher on the ladder.
Thus it never works and countries starve.
What’s funny is that there are no examples of successful communism and thus all the attempts are proclaimed as ‘no true communism’.
The reason capitalism works is because it utilizes human greed. It needs boundaries and restraints of course because greed is infinite. We get the cream top achievers make and redistribute it to incentivise bottom ladder to climb.
State protects the vulnerable and minorities and sets boundaries. Upper boundary is the climate one. Lower one is essential necessities one.
And this is the ideal that some countries actually achieved. Unlike ideal of communism that never got even close. So instead of thinking about some utopias let’s just adopt everywhere the tried and true system.
That is just bullshit that assumes people only work if there is a monetary benefit to be achieved. The most common provided reason is "human nature" which is easily disproven. There are many examples of societies where cooperation without this has worked.
There is a wide range of why communist experiments have failed. Most of the time it is because the revolution was compromised leading to authoritarian communism. I'm just going to hint to you that there are other, more desirable forms of communism. Which of them is "true" communism is not for me to decide.
This meritocratic ideology is what is being used to justify the differences between peoples incomes and way more importantly their wealth. Which is weird because the most common way of achieving wealth today is not by working hard but by inheritance, which has decidedly nothing to do with being a "top achiever".
The state protects first and foremost the right to ownership, which is not aligned with the desirable goals of protecting minorities and setting boundaries. It is aligned with these goals only so far as it keeps the status quo going, which means maximizing the profits for the few right up to the point where the many do not yet revolt.
I'm going to go ahead and have a laugh right here. What basically every "developed" state on earth has achieved is a system that allows capital to accumulate in the hands of ever few people. This isn't an opinion by the way, this is a straight up fact and has nothing to do with political views.
The tried and true system is currently throwing us all in a climate crisis if the IPCC reports are to be believed. Which I think they can be. The tried and true system is accumulating the global wealth in the hands of very few people. The tried and true system is failing to implement a tax system that would actually allow to redistribute this wealth. Instead this tried and true system is forcing nations into a betting war for ever lower taxes on wealth "to keep production in their country" while the companies go around chasing the lowest taxes further fueling this circle.
I am tired of explaining why communism is a wishful thinking pipe dream that turns into authoritarianism every time.
Someone sold you magic solution horseshit and you swallowed it and asked for more. There are no magic solutions. Democracy and freedom is the only way. Collective slavery of communism must die.
I won’t waste my time any further. It’s a free country (yet). You are free to believe in communism even though you couldn’t have free beliefs under communism.
Any westoids that never knew communism and think it is amazing can go and remove themselves from the gene pool in my book.
I'm just going to point out that you are the one even bringing communism on the table and I am happy to discuss it. You brought that up as a response to my comment:
To which you responded:
I wasn't arguing that we just use the magic communism bullet to solve our problems. You just think that I am arguing that. I was and am of the opinion that we can improve the situation massively by increasing redistribution of wealth.
Edit: And I like the idea of communism in a theoretical way because I think it can be helpful to think about stuff that probably won't be implemented to get ideas on how the current system could be improved. The idea of distributing economical power more evenly is at core of socialism but it doing that in a moderate way doesnt require a revolution, it can be implemented in our current system. /Edit
Thinking of people as less valuable to "the genepool" because their opinions differ is the kind of thinking that explains why liberals and fascists are so often political friends.
It’s a euphemism for willing sudden disappearance from environment of planet earth. Not literally anything with eugenics.
I could say they should consider halting their mitochondria for a day.
That's still suggesting they are worth less than other humans based on their opinions
except every time it hasn't
If you continue to abuse the flagging system, you will be banned.
deal with the misinformation in your community
Yes? Is that a good answer? I can’t read this late I have my edibles, book, bed pipeline now
Also forgot what was even the convo back then
🎵 The price of convenience will be our defeat 🎵
I'd also reccomend Skyline Blvd, John's Song and Times New Roman. Oh and Sleepwalker, from the Destroy What Destroys you album
Cool but you are even more guilty than me if you just wait for some idealistic, mythical system to solve all problems instead of acting with what is here. Now.
You were sold some horseshit ma’am/sir
Ive got much better things to do and a painful awareness of how much time gets sucked into these apps. As such, I engage on my terms:
Dont wait or engage too much with bait like the poster im replying to comrades. Organize, be out with your local community and build that dual power. Dont let the threat of state violence or surveillance cow you into policing your own beliefs. Fight for your rights bc you need them, because Only We Keep Us Safe.