Accountable means that the public has leverage over the officials and is able to get rid of them when they don't act in their interest. The EU bureaucracy is very clearly not acting in the interests of the citizens of the EU which is pretty clear when you look at the current state of things in the eurozone. Individuals in the EU do not have any power over EU bureaucracy.

[–] Tiuku@sopuli.xyz 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So it's not enough "accountability" to vote differently in the next elections?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Of course not, but that's the best that western parliamentary democracies offer. EU removes even this last vestige of accountability.

[–] Tiuku@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Okay, well how would your accountable democracy work then?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The way it functions in China, Vietnam, and Cuba where the government consistently works in the interest of the majority. Go read up on how political/economic systems work in these countries.

[–] w_ortiz@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I agree that the accountability of western democracies is an illusion.

But you're not answering the question at all regarding China, Cuba and Vietnam. Basically you are just saying : They're accountable because they are.

Show us what actual political mechanism exist for the people to reclaim from the state when it's not working as intended there.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I gave a more detailed answer here https://lemmy.ml/post/372982/comment/232381

And of course, we can look at the tangible results of the systems in Cuba, China, and Vietnam where quality of life continues to improve and poverty is being eliminated. I'll give a few examples from China here.

Chinese government practically eliminated poverty

If we take just one country, China, out of the global poverty equation, then even under the $1.90 poverty standard we find that the extreme poverty headcount is the exact same as it was in 1981.

The $1.90/day (2011 PPP) line is not an adequate or in any way satisfactory level of consumption; it is explicitly an extreme measure. Some analysts suggest that around $7.40/day is the minimum necessary to achieve good nutrition and normal life expectancy, while others propose we use the US poverty line, which is $15.

China also massively invests in infrastructure having used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century, they built 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade.

90% of families in the country own their home, giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans.

Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it's the most populous country on the planet. NYT also points out social mobility is higher in China than in US.

And then there's the handling of the pandemic where it's all but eliminated in China with life getting back to normal and the economy growing, while we anxiously look at our fourth wave where our government left people out to dry to protect business interests.

[–] peeonyou@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

But is this a function of the government being more accountable to the citizenry or is it just a phase where the government's highest interest is in building up a flourishing middle class? At any point if the government changed direction what recourse do the citizenry have over it?

I've been reading some threads you're in and everyone keeps asking the same question but you have yet to answer it.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago

The answer is that only time will tell. Nobody has a crystal ball to tell them what the future will be, we have to base our assessments on what we can observe and measure. Using these criteria Chinese government is acting in the interest of the public, and has been doing so since its inception. That seems like a pretty good track record to me.