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To normalise the idea that people who once voted "for the left ^^^tm " now voting for a hard right reform party. Because you're bored. Because it seemed funny. Who knows, why does anyone lie?
So, as "the left" aren't meeting your left wing economic planning expectations, you decided to go with a party who have NO left leaning economic plans. Well, id love to hear how you plan to square that circle.
Of course I can accept that people have different opinions to me. What a silly thing to say. No, sadly, its that it sounds like bollocks and it doesn't hold up to any scrutiny, is all.
Of course it holds up to scrutiny. You are just close minded.
I, and probably most left wing people throughout history, have had economically left views and want low immigration. I don't know why you can't accept that.
The left aren't doing enough, or talking about doing enough, about immigration. So as such I have to make a decision. What's more important, kinda crappy left views that in my opinion don't go far enough. Or deal with immigration.
Immigration is such a big issue that the left are losing voters like me to parties that will do something about immigration.
If there was a left party talking about immigration as much as reform and was polling the same I'd vote for them. But right now the big issue is immigration and I want that solved. I'm willing to take a economic hit achieve that. But I also think lowering immigration is good for the economy and the workers in it. So I get to vote for 2/3 things I want rather than 1/3. There does that basic maths help you understand now? It's really not hard.
My mind is open. Its just youre taking a load of bollocks, is all. Its really not my fault you're trying to sell these whoppers.
I'll show you how it doesn't hold up:
Exaclty who are "the left" here and what isn't going far enough, that reform has gone far enough on? Don't be light on the detail or just declare wide sweeping BS and you should find the root of the problem.
https://metro.co.uk/2024/06/04/this-top-parties-election-say-immigration-20967177/
Labour has some vague promises about controlling borders. Great doesn't really say anything at all does it? Doesn't sound like immigration is going to come massively down.
Greens: No barriers to prevent or deter asylum seekers wanting to come into the UK. Scrap minimum income and language requirements for visas.
Brilliant. We have people already coming to the UK that won't integrate now we are going to bring in people that can't even speak English.
Do you actually care what plaid, SNP or any of the NI parties have to say? They are largely on labours level.
Reform
Focus on ‘the immigration election’ Stop the boats’ (with a six-point plan) Freeze all non-essential, ‘unskilled’ immigration (excluding care workers)
You must be able to see how reform are talking about doing more about immigration right? You can't be that thick.
You must be able to see voting for reform comes across more as "the UK wants less immigration" than voting for greens or labour.
Don't worry, no one here is as thick as you. Apparently, a points based system and banning companies who abuse the system is too vague and hard to understand for some of us.
"The boats" are a drop in the bucket compared to legal immigration, all cheered on by right wing corporatists. Its just a banner to distract morons.
So, what left leaving policy did they have? Remember, you had some hilarious claims about needing economic lefty-ness before. So, they must have something. I mean, it can't just be about immigration when all those factors that won you over would be included in a points based system?
Lol, we both know its not about the fine detail. Its about dog whistling.
If they capped the points based system them might get my vote. But points based system doesn't necessarily mean a drop in immigration.
I think I said I believe in economic left wing ideas I actually wrote some out here.
https://lemm.ee/comment/12515389
But for the benefit of the country, and the workers long term. Immigration trumps all my economic views, they can wait. Immigration down now, then left wing policies later.
The reason we have such hight immigration is because companies have been allowed to run roughshod over our immigration system. All they have to do is float some job adverts and they can pretend there's a skill shortage. Corporatists have done this to stop wages from going up. I image we agree roughly so far.
Labour want a points based system and a central body overlooking what actually is a skill shortage and whats a lie. Immigration will go down, as soon as you don't have corporatists in charge.
Haven't you found it funny how reform get so much airtime, despite having only one, solitary councillor in the whole of the UK? I mean, the greens have nearly 1,000 but we don't hear a peep out of them on the big news stations. Yet reform are all 9ver the place.
Anyway, in completely unrelated news I'm sure, reform are looking to gut our NHS and they're getting huge backing, support and platforming by the lobby groups who are lickling their lips and circling like vultures hoping to gorge themselves on tax payer money and the death our NHS may be driven to by the tories.
I had a glace at your link and I think we agree on lots of things. I'm sad to see that you've been convinced that we would ever be allowed to work less, under right wing governments. Theyre the driving force of immigration, lowered wages and cut services. There's nothing to suggest labour won't reduce immigration, other than the wild declarations and made up stories of people who would never vote labour anyway.
Youre trying to fuck your way to virginity.
I agree with most of what you said. But the right won't get in again unless they toughen up on immigration. The far right or the left will get in and the left know people want lowered immigration.
I'm never voting labour, I never have and I never will unless they try to get rid of FPTP. They are going to win anyway so my vote does nothing.
I don't think we will. But I love this country and I'm willing to make sacrifices, if I need to work 6 days a week to keep immigration down that's a tradeoff I'm happy to accept. But again. I don't represent 20 million votes. Me voting labour or reform isn't going to get either party in power/ keep them out.
You did claim to have voted left all before this. If not labour, who was it?
The idea that "the left" want immigration is a right wing trope, full of racism. They just presume they want more as "immigrants vote left" which is statically untrue. Its a mix, as we import conservative types too.
So, with that in mind, who actaully benefits from mass immigration? Its not labour or the people they represent. So, who is it that benefits from mass lowering of wages and increased housing prices due to the manufactured housing crisis?
Well, anyone should be able to figure out that it's the wealthy and their business interests who benefit and they're represented by the right. Always have been.
Being able to work less and not having to toil all day for someone else's gain is a left wing idea. Theres no world where the right get in and we work less. In fact, everything they do is to make non-rich people work more, for less.
I care about the people who live here and not symbols or fake, fairytale history that gets weaponised and used to make people vote against their own self interest. I care to save our NHS from the very same corporate interests you want to vote for. But you'd be happy to lose even more of your life to work and our NHS, if the right wing (who benefit the most and have presided over the most immigration ever) end immigration which would be impossible and they would never do anyway.
I mean, what am I supposed to say to that?