this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
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[–] uis@lemm.ee 0 points 8 months ago (50 children)
[–] bumphot@lemy.lol -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (49 children)

I think this haterred towards Putin blinded most of us to let governments increase their authorariansim. Like in US after 9/11. Of course Putin is dangerous, but he can't even win a war in a small country right next to his. Lost more troops then Ukraine. Meanwhile NATO expansion across the World and US influance is truely scary and unprecedented. Most of the wars in World are started by NATO counties and here we don't hear about is as much.

All the invasions of Iran, Afganistan, Vietnam, Syria, etc where unjustfied invasions just like Ukraine and in case of Palestine, far worse. Yet, media successfully is pointing our focus on a single war in Ukraine where Russia has made no advencments and is clearly inferior military power. It reminds me of 9/11, when fear from a small group of terrorist gave the government power to spy on all of its citizens, run torture camp in Guantanamo and remove citizens rights one by one.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 0 points 8 months ago (18 children)

All the invasions of Iran, Afganistan, Vietnam, Syria, etc where unjustfied invasions

  • The US has never invaded Iran
  • Afganistan was completely justified; the US could not let 9/11 go. Few countries in the world disputed this at the time, even among those unfriendly to the US. You can certainly criticize how it played out--I sure as hell do.
  • Vietnam, yeah, not going to argue there
  • Syria was a complex 13 way clusterfuck. We supported a specific side against another specific side, mostly with material and air support, and some limited ground support. It's not exactly an invasion, but this is certainly another place where it's more about how it played out than the support in itself.
[–] bumphot@lemy.lol 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I did mean Iraq, but Iran is not much better. US staged a coup in Iran to get a puppet government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#Release_of_U.S._government_records_and_official_acknowledgement Afganistan is not justified, you don't invade an entire country because of a terroist attack. It was an excuse, just like the Patriot Act for more imperisalism and antidemocratic actions. Calling things invasions are semantics, more important is the bigger picture. US has huge influnace in the region thorug coups and military invasions.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Afganistan is not justified, you don’t invade an entire country because of a terroist attack.

You do when that country's leadership is deliberately giving those terrorists a base. Again, few other countries at the time disputed this.

[–] bumphot@lemy.lol 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That is like saying it is justifed to bomb New York because Biden is helping Israel in their genocide. People are not their governments, going to war for revenge is cruel.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Not really. More like if there was a terrorist base in the US that was being used to bomb Gaza directly and the US was giving them money and equipment to do it.

[–] bumphot@lemy.lol 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Well they are giving them money and equipement to do it. The only difference is that isntead of one attack it is complete genocide of people and the fact that the base is not in US but in Isreal. But the support is the same and the crime is even greater. There is no sense to blame Afganistan for 9/11 and not US for genocide.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You know what, honestly, yeah, the people of Gaza probably do have casus belli against the US. They merely lack the capacity to do anything.

[–] bumphot@lemy.lol -1 points 8 months ago

And that is exactly the point. Only thing it matters is that you have the power, all sides do horrible things, it is the power balance that has some meaning, not morality here. Currently power is very much on NATO side. No one can touch US when they commit war crimes, instead the whistleblowers and journalists are the ones that go to prison, like in Assange and Manning case.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The current winner in the Middle East is Russia

Since they are allowed to support the killing of civilians and suppression of rights they have Iran, Iraq, and Syria

You can see how hard it is for the US to even have a foothold there with the Israel conflict. Which they are forced to support because of the above

[–] bumphot@lemy.lol -1 points 8 months ago

US has far more influence in Middle Easst then Russia. Russia didn't win anything in Middle East. US has control of Saudi Arabia and Israel quite famously. Most other governments where once funded by the CIA as well.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.ca -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

NATO did not invade Iraq, the US did. You are conflating things.

[–] bumphot@lemy.lol 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

NATO is heavily influenced by US. When they ask other countries to join, they wear a NATO hat, when they invade other countries they where their counturies independent hats that just so happens to be in NATO.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Oops you admit they are not the same, but try to confuse the issue with "influence". Followed by more with "hat" which is lol worthy. NATO did not invade Iraq. The US did.

Something tells me you're trying to be intentionally obtuse trying to conflate everything so ciao

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