283
Is Trump disqualified for the N.H. primary? The secretary of state is seeking legal advice
(www.bostonglobe.com)
this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
283 points (95.5% liked)
News
23303 readers
5507 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Can you show me which part of the 14th amendment, section three, requires a conviction of any kind?
Disqualification from office is not a criminal punishment.
Edit: Protip: The full text of 14A S3 is posted at the very beginning of this thread.
Can you show me in any part of the constitution where it says any civil punishment or penalty requires a conviction? Can a right wing DA accuse Hillary of the same crimes and remove her eligibility to office?
Not without a conviction.
District attorneys are probably not the people at the state level who determine ballot eligibility. Secretary of State would be likely, there are other election officials who could enforce constitutional law in this context.
People who are under 35 years of age are also disqualified from holding the office of President of the United States. Nobody needs to be "convicted" of being under the age of 35. If someone under the age of 35 meets all other prerequisites to run for president, they should not be allowed on the ballot, because it says so in the Constitution. No court case is required, no conviction is required, no accusation of any crime is required.
The same applies to people "who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."
Excellent work ignoring my question and retorting with a question that doesn't even make any sense. In case you happened to miss it:
Edit: Oh wait, I think I see what you're asking now. Are you asserting that disqualification is a civil penalty? It's not. It's not a penalty. There is no "right" to aspiring to or holding office.
Tha constitution is the basis of law, not law itself. Someone too young to run for president would obviously be unconstitutional, so there is no need to make a law specifically for that. But what you don't apparently understand is that Trump hasn't committed any of the things he has been accused of until he is convicted in a court. Regardless of the fevered dreams of the media and the far left, he is innocent of the charges so far. You could be on video robbing a bank, 20 eyewitness to the crime, cash in your possession when arrested, and you aren't guilty until 12 people on a jury say you are. He can't be disqualified yet.
There are some things which are "Constitutional law."
Having acted in a specifically defined way and being convicted of a crime are two different things.
This is the only true thing in your comment.
Yes he can, because it's not about being accused of a crime and being either convicted or acquitted. It's about having participated in a specifically defined behavior, and being disqualified from office because of it. As I have previously explained, people do not have a "right" to asipre to run for or hold office. Certain people are disqualified from holding the office of President by the Constitution, for reasons which are unrelated to criminality.
Trump may also be criminally convicted of actions related to "participating in isurrection or rebellion against the [United States], or giving aid or comfort to the enemies thereof," but that's a completely separate issue.
And since you mentioned "the fevered dreams of the media and the far left," I'll remind you that three of the four legal experts I cited above are super right wing.
I'll ask a third time:
Can you show me any enforcement mechanism in 14A Sec 3 of the constitution?
The Arizona Supreme Court disagrees with you (Though the Sec of State disagrees). https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4179561-trump-cant-be-barred-from-arizonas-2024-ballot-says-democratic-secretary-of-state/
Other Blue leaning states may agree with your reasoning, but Trump wasn't going to win those anyway.
It is self-executing. It has the same enforcement mechanism as the part in Article II which states that only people who are over the age of 35 can hold the office of President.
And it's not "Blue state" reasoning. The reason this all came up was because of the paper The Sweep and Force of Section Three, written by two Federalist Society (way way way conservative) guys. It's long, but it's in relatively clear language.
Let's see how you decide to dodge ask number four:
That's a hilarious legal argument. This will likely end up in front of Scotus.
I think I'll go with what at least one state Supreme Court has decided over some rando on the internet.
I guess SCOTUS can actually read section 3 of the 14th amendment.
9-0.