this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2024
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[–] parpol@programming.dev 48 points 5 months ago (83 children)

If you want a trustless system, you have to sacrifice performance. At least the proof of stake blockchains like Ethereum don't use that much energy, and you get a pretty cheap and fast transaction with layer 2 solutions on par with credit card transactions.

[–] Tehhund@lemmy.world 76 points 5 months ago (55 children)

Sure, but what real-world problem does a trustless solve? I thought this was all very interesting years ago but now that we've had blockchain for years it seems it's only good for illegal or morally questionable transactions.

[–] ComradeKhoumrag@infosec.pub 4 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Trusting Humans is literally a security flaw. Any system with trust you can find examples with fraud and abuse from those who held power by holding that trust.

We trusted bankers to invest our money, and some short sold the housing market with that money

I could go on, but trust really is a security issue. Decentralization has its efficiency issues, but saying "Bitcoin uses as much power as the 90th largest nation" is peanuts when you consider the energy inequality that America spends and compare what Bitcoin delivers with that energy versus how much energy centralized banks need to deliver a system that's easier to fraud

[–] Tehhund@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Ah yes Bitcoin, famously free of fraud and abuse.

More seriously, every system can be used for fraud. The question is whether the solution is actually better overall. We could prevent all wire fraud by returning to a cash-only economy. But that would be hugely inconvenient and therefore create a huge drag on the economy compared to a world where we can do electronic transfers even though electronic transfers open us up to wire fraud. Returning to cash-only is not worth the increase in security, and it opens us up to other issues (e.g., bank runs and someone stealing all the money under my mattress).

And while power use is a problem with Proof of Work coins, it's not my biggest concern about cryptocurrency because Proof of Stake can fix that issue. It's a shame that the biggest coin now is PoW but hopefully that will change. The bigger issue is "is cryptocurrency better than traditional currency?" So far it hasn't proven to be better except in extremely limited circumstances. And a lot of the ways cryptocurrency is better will go away if governments start regulating it like other forms of finance. Having your money in cryptocurrency won't protect you from the police and courts.

We trusted bankers to invest our money, and some short sold the housing market with that money

Okay? You could do that with cryptocurrency if traders started accepting cryptocurrency for shorts. The only reason you can't do that today is traders won't accept cryptocurrency for shorts, and that's basically security through obscurity.

[–] ComradeKhoumrag@infosec.pub 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sure, drugs and fraud surround Bitcoin, but drugs, fraud, and banking imperialism surround the petrodollar

[–] Tehhund@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

I didn't say cryptocurrency was any better or worse for fraud and abuse than regular currencies. Honestly I have no idea which one is better or worse for fraud and abuse. I'm just saying it's not clear that the particular way that cryptocurrency is more secure than regular banking is actually beneficial.

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