While I have serious issues with Biden on Israel, he really has no ability to force a ceasefire. (Short of sending US troops in to enforce it, and that would be a terrible idea.).

Did you forget about the UN Security Council votes? The ones the US ruined?

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

No, that is one of the serious issues, but I also know that UN security council votes would make no difference whatsoever.

[–] OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

How do you know that? It's probably the best chance we have, surely?

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Resolutions against further settlement were completely ignored. Ultimately, UN resolutions rely on a willingness to use military force if necessary. There is no interest in that, and there shouldn't be. That would certainly spread the conflict.

There actually was a successful vote on humanitarian aid, and that aid is being largely blocked by Israel.

[–] OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It seems like the problem is with UN security council resolutions not being enforced, so why make it look like America is the issue? Why not give it the best chance? Hell If you cared about the well being of your fellow human beings (controversial I know) wouldn't you be approving resolutions and then fighting to get them implemented? If they ignore it you can fucking sanction them. Use it to justify stopping arms sales and aid.

America cannot escape their responsibility for this, IMO. If they'd voted for a cease fire and Israel had ignored it, it would be Israel's fault. The way it stands America shares the blame, whether they like it or not.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

As I mentioned, the best chance for the US to influence Israel is for it to not take an adversarial role. It's like negotiating with a hostage taker. (I hate oversimplified analogies in foreign policy, but this one works really well). A hostage negotiator tries to sympathize with the hostage taker because it's the best way to get the hostages out safely. America has tried to thread the needle between putting pressure on Israel and remaining supportive. It hasn't had much success, but it's the best course open to us.

I am not of the opinion that moral considerations don't belong in foreign policy, but moral judgements like assigning "blame" can be antithetical to achieving moral ends. The second you label a foreign government as "genocidal" you lose all ability to influence them with anything but military force.

I actually agree with you that America gets a lot of the blame for what is happening but, most of the fault comes from things before October 7. I also fault Biden for a lot of that, and I think he has been far too over the top in supporting Israel publicly. What I think they are getting bad press for is the broad strategy of trying to restrain Israel while maintaining the relationship.

[–] OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Thanks, I appreciate the thoughtful explanation.

I get that this may be the best way to approach it in most cases, but what happens when it doesn't work? As you said it hasn't been successful. In a hostage negotiation, if any attempts had been fruitless, they would send in a team to rescue hostages by force. Not let the negotiator keep fumbling while people were being killed.

What I think they are getting bad press for is the broad strategy of trying to restrain Israel while maintaining the relationship.

Yeah I agree and imo this is deserved. Why is the relationship so important that it justifies undermining your own stated set of morals in such a public and humiliating way? I do not get it.

This happened recently through public statements:

Biden: two state solution is the only way

Bibi: nope

Biden: don't worry we can make it work

Bibi: no we can't, he's wrong

So why exactly do you want to be friends with this asshole again? It's like America is in an abusive relationship and nobody can convince them to leave