this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2024
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Huge losses from national disasters prompt industry to jack up prices and pull back from some markets; ‘worst possible scenario’ for consumers

After Allstate suffered billions of dollars in losses and failed to get the rate increases it wanted, it resorted to the nuclear option. 

The insurance giant threatened last fall to stop renewing auto insurance for customers in three states that hadn’t given in to its demands, which would have left those policyholders scrambling for coverage. The states blinked.

In December, New Jersey approved auto rate increases for Allstate averaging 17%, and New York, a 15% hike. Regulators in California are allowing Allstate to boost auto rates by 30%, but still haven’t decided on its request for a 40% increase in home-insurance rates after the insurer refused to write new policies.

For many Americans, getting insurance for both their cars and homes has gone from a routine, generally manageable expense to a do-or-die ordeal that can strain household budgets.

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[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I'm not suggesting we stop at nonprofit insurance. We can use the data so states can determine regions that are unfit for human habitation, which will become necessary due to climate change. A state-ran insurance could still have risk pools as well for matters like house and car insurance, without nonsense like charging charging more for owners of red cars.

[–] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I mean, there's no mystery here. You can literally just look at the regions that home insurers have been pulling out of to get a pretty good start. This data already exists. Collecting and processing that data is literally the primary thing that insurance companies do.

If a company whose sole purpose is extracting every bit of profit they can is deciding that insuring an area is not feasible, that probably says something. The inevitable, but obviously unpopular, answer is that there are some places where people moving there need to do so at their own risk, because it's not fair for them to throw these fundamentally unnecessary high costs on other people. Minus a small adjustment to account for how state insurance doesn't need profit and so can operate at zero margin, the structure of the insurance doesn't really make a difference here.

[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I don't think that there is an inherent link between profit and safety, so I'm hesitant to call their data useful for determining where a place is safe to live. Maybe useful for determining risk pools, but not for determining safety. There are places that should not be habitated, but it shouldn't be determined by capital interests.

[–] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 3 points 10 months ago

I'm not talking about raw safety. I'm referring to the situation where the average costs a resident of the area will incur due to environmental damage surpasses the amount an average person is willing to pay in insurance premiums. In these kinds of areas, insurance in inherently unworkable, regardless of profit seeking or not (again, minus a minor adjustment in margins)

In these places, you can either add in external subsidies to make the numbers work, which is bound to be unpopular with the people having to pay extra money to support people choosing to incur unnecessary costs, or you can accept that there is no workable insurance scheme in the area that and residents must take account of their own risks. There's no real way around this basic reality.

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 2 points 10 months ago

This isn't about safety - those places are safe to live most of the time, and the weather predictions are very good at giving you a week notice to get out before the exceptions.

It is just too expensive to have buildings in those areas. Nobody builds a house that can be moved away from those areas in a week. Thus if you live there you need to account for the costs of rebuilding your house every few years when the weather destroys it. Or you need to build a house that can survive the weather - I don't know how expensive that would be.

I don't care if you want to live in those places, but I do not want to subsidize your housing if you choose to live there. Come move closer to me if you don't like it. (note that there are other risks living close to me)

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

without nonsense like charging charging more for owners of red cars.

You understand that there's nothing about the paint that makes red cars more prone to claims, but rather the drivers predominately that select red cars statistically have higher claims. If you're a generally safe driver, is there a reason that you would want to subsidize someone who is statistically a less safe driver?

[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

For a few reasons. It's not easy to determine the difference between a streak of bad luck and a bad driver. I also don't think that people should go bankrupt because of an accident, regardless of fault. I believe that people will feel more responsible if they have a sense of collective responsibility through mutual funding.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago

It’s not easy to determine the difference between a streak of bad luck and a bad driver.

You seem to be arguing that drivers of red cars statistically have worse luck. Statistics doesn't deal in luck, only results. If red cars cost more to insure (and we both acknowledge there nothing in paint pigment that can cause this) then it is a behavior of the drivers that choose these cars. That does seem like a good reason to not penalize safer drivers that don't drive red cars. Also, realistically we're talking about one tiny input into the actuarial tables that go into pricing insurance premiums for drivers. Red paint is probably way lower than other more important factors such as the complexity of repairs necessary for like accidents or the individual driver's previous driving history.

I also don’t think that people should go bankrupt because of an accident, regardless of fault.

How is a person going bankrupt is if they're insured? Their future premiums will can certainly go up, but that's not a bankruptcy event.

I believe that people will feel more responsible if they have a sense of collective responsibility through mutual funding.

Perhaps in some cultures, but certainly not in the USA. If anything socializing the losses creates less feeling of responsibility because the person committing the act only suffers a tiny fraction of the consequences.