What the article I linked very clearly explains is that Buran was a substantially different design from the shuttle, and the similarity to it is only skin deep. USSR was also the technological leader throughout the space race and managed to produce plenty of things like closed cycle engines that US still isn't able to manufacture on their own.

Meanwhile, I don't even live in Russia. Your whole world view is ideologically driven so you just assume I must have some personal stake in this. I'm simply explaining to you that the reality of what Russia is differs wildly from your conception of it.

[–] Julianus@lemmy.ml -3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The very idea of a spaceplane is flawed. But Stalinist brutality hammers out anything but conformity. Even Korolev himself spent time in a gulag! So it's no surprise Soviet engineers simply aped whatever their spies said the Americans were working on. With better bells and whistles, because Capitalism is flawed! They could worked on something actually revolutionary, instead built a knock off they only flew once.

Consider that ridiculously long table in Putin's bunker today with meek generals at the far end. Isn't that the same mentality today? It wasn't a recipe for success then nor is it now.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The very idea of a spaceplane is flawed. But Stalinist brutality hammers out anything but conformity.

Stalin was around when Buran was made?

So it’s no surprise Soviet engineers simply aped whatever their spies said the Americans were working on.

Once again, you should actually learn why both US and USSR made space planes. My favorite part in these discussions is how you just keep saying stuff that's just demonstrably false, and you could just google and learn about it instead of making shit up constantly.

Consider that ridiculously long table in Putin’s bunker today with meek generals at the far end. Isn’t that the same mentality today? It wasn’t a recipe for success then nor is it now.

Another perfect example of you having absolutely no clue about Russia or history. Zhukov promoted by Stalin precisely because he challenged Stalin and had strong opinions. And do remind me how the war worked out then, who was it that won it again?

[–] Julianus@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No, I said Stalinist, since he left a stain that wasn't easily removed, even today. He did actually send Korolev to prison in Siberia, though. Imagine what the Soviet space program might have achieved, if getting sent to a gulag a daily option. Echoes of the past, as Putin threatens his generals with arrest for telling him what he doesn't want to hear.

In the US, the space shuttle's goal was to reuse expensive engines and thereby bring the cost per kg of payload down. This did not come to pass. The Soviets spent all the money to copy the same idea but never actually used it, because they concluded, as well, that it wasn't economic.

The invasion is in progress. The results are unclear at the moment, but judging by how insistent Putin and ~~Lapdog ~~Lavrov are bleating more and more about peace talks, it implies the stalled offensive cannot be sustained much longer. I honestly don't see how Ukraine can capitulate to demilitarize, given Russia's repeated aggression.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's pretty clear that the Soviet space program achieved far more than anyone else. Sure, it could've likely achieved even more if USSR wasn't under constant threat of war from the west. However, your argument was that USSR and later Russia just copied and couldn't innovate, which is demonstrably false.

Echoes of the past, as Putin threatens his generals with arrest for telling him what he doesn’t want to hear.

Literally the opposite of what actually happened. Stalin gave more freedom to his general as the war progressed while Hitler started making more and more decisions himself overriding his generals. Maybe learn a bit of history?

In the US, the space shuttle’s goal was to reuse expensive engines and thereby bring the cost per kg of payload down.

No, the space shuttle and Buran were designed as military platforms.

The invasion is in progress. The results are unclear at the moment

Oh, you're now walking back your claims to things being unclear. In fact, they appear to be quite clear to US military people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iw0m-Pc08Q

but judging by how insistent Putin and ~~Lapdog ~~Lavrov are bleating more and more about peace talks, it implies the stalled offensive cannot be sustained much longer.

Last I checked, Russia's demands haven't changed in the slightest. I'll give you some free education here. Russia uses Clausewitz war doctrine where war is seen as extension of diplomacy. The goal has always been to pressure Ukraine into Russian terms, and they're using their military offensive as a lever to achieve that.

I honestly don’t see how Ukraine can capitulate to demilitarize, given Russia’s repeated aggression.

That's because you are ignorant. Go and read up on how Russia achieved this in Chechnya and Syria as two recent examples. They are following exactly the same pattern in Ukraine right now.

[–] Julianus@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't understand how it's clear the Soviets achieved "more than anyone else." They might have, without saddled by an authoritarian government. But despite your constant harping about my lack of historical knowledge, you did know that their manned moon landing was cancelled after their N-1 booster blew up three times? Why? Lack of computers to control many small rockets at once. And of course, they're timetable was determined autocratically. It wasn't the threat from the west, it was the threats from their own government.

Lol. Where did you learn this history? Stalin regularly purged his generals for giving him bad news. Field promotions were cheap and easy to come by. Interestingly, this is why so many Russian generals have been "liquidated" recently. They're right up on the front lines because no one else has authority or information to make decisions and it's their head in the noose. Remind me, professor, when was the last time an American general was killed in action?

I think you should read Clausewitz again. NATO got Russia to break it's teeth on an unaffiliated nation. That isn't achieving Putin's goals. It's achieving NATO's goals with a minimum of effort. With an image of a mad dog, Putin has driven fence-sitting nations to join the EU and NATO. All that's left for Russia is to hide under the skirts of China. Checkmate.

Chechnya and Syria? So more war crimes, I'm afraid...

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago

You don't understand great many things because evidently you spend all your time arguing here instead of educating yourself. Read some history perhaps?

But despite your constant harping about my lack of historical knowledge, you did know that their manned moon landing was cancelled after their N-1 booster blew up three times? Why?

That wasn't because they lacked computers. It was because it was literally part of the design process to launch multiple prototypes and then collect telemetry from them. Here's a whole documentary you can watch on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMbl_ofF3AM

Meanwhile, did you know that US could not replicate the engines Soviets designed for N1, and in fact after USSR collapsed US engineers refused to believe the specs on the engines because they didn't think that was possible.

Also, you may be shocked to discover that US moon program was run autocratically by the government pretty in a similar fashion to the way Soviets ran their program. Pretty much all the large scale projects US delivered were either government programs or received massive funding from the government.

Lol. Where did you learn this history?

Go read up on Zhukov as one example buddy.

They’re right up on the front lines because no one else has authority or information to make decisions and it’s their head in the noose.

Weird how the Soviets won the war being so incompetent while efficient and clever Europe couldn't put up a fight when German tanks rolled in.

Remind me, professor, when was the last time an American general was killed in action?

Remind me professor when was the last time US won a war?

I think you should read Clausewitz again. NATO got Russia to break it’s teeth on an unaffiliated nation.

You will soon discover this was not the case, so I don't need to convince you of anything here.

That isn’t achieving Putin’s goals. It’s achieving NATO’s goals with a minimum of effort.

If NATO's goals were to tank western economies and cause mass public unrest then they're achieving those goals very efficiently indeed.

With an image of a mad dog, Putin has driven fence-sitting nations to join the EU and NATO. All that’s left for Russia is to hide under the skirts of China. Checkmate.

Checkmate for whom though. The west isn't an industrial power, it relies on China and Russia for most of its manufacturing and resources. Now the west is cutting themselves off from the very things they need. Some serious 4d chess being played here.

Chechnya and Syria? So more war crimes, I’m afraid…

How did things turn out in Chechnya and Syria. Meanwhile, they're exactly the same kinds of war crimes NATO is committing this very day.