this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2023
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[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

being vegan doesn't help the planet at all.

[–] amzd@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

How does reducing land and water use through your food choice not help the planet?

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

it doesn't actually reduce the use.

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Please don't tell me you're gonna bring up the stupid soy fields in the rain forest argument :'D

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

environmental destruction continues whether you are vegan or not.

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago

also what part of my comment prompted you to post that random response?

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

yep due to the meat industry keeping going regardless of a fairly small demographic quitting their products

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

so maybe you should stop lying to people about being vegan helping the planet.

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It does, if enough people did it.

You're so angry lol

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 months ago (4 children)

what makes you think you can tell anything about my emotional state?

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[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

It does, if enough people did it.

do you have a plan to make that happen? how many people is enough?

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[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

being vegan doesn't stop soy from being grown in rainforests

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

exactly, because almost 100% of that soy is for meat production

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that's fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process.

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago (17 children)

Wheree do you get your numbers from?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/

They seem off my guy.

Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar

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[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You are making the false assumption that your consumption is causative to the production of animal products which is, unfortunately and non-intuituvely, untrue. The only difference between vegan and non-vegan diets is whether animal products end up on your plate vs. in "cheese mountain" type stockpiles, exports, landfills, etc.

That being said, 'commie' is a terrible communicator if that's what they're trying to say. Going vegan does help to highlight some of the contradictions of capitalism and you're on the right track as it should be advocated for. However, the 'invisible hand of the free market' does not translate veganism to any reduction in farmed animals, land or water use.

[–] amzd@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

“If you don’t buy it a company will throw it away instead” is not a very good argument to buy something if you even believe it to be true at all.

[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying the act of "not buying it" (even if it was a complete and total boycott) has no impact on the production due to the system of subsidies, futures, derivatives, etc. that is set up explicitly to make sure production continues. And therefore has no impact on land/water usage, suffering etc.

With the point being that it's a good first step, but if your expectation is it will change anything without first changing the underlying system you will be very disappointed.

[–] amzd@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Your argument is called the nirvana fallacy;

“World peace would be ideal; this peace treaty fails to completely achieve world peace; therefore this peace treaty is not worth doing.”

And I do not accept that.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago

it's not a nirvana fallacy. they're actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn't do anything to change any of the problems.

[–] rautapekoni@sopuli.xyz 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Surely the societal pressure to change the systems that support factory farming of animals will grow pretty much in proportion with the vegan/vegetarian population? I don't like the defeatist attitude that our choises as consumers don't matter, at all.

[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's not defeatist, it's pushing back against the wishful thinking that "voting with your dollar" is effective and your responsibility ends there.

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago

I mean if they make substantially less money with product x they scale back production. Just like with any other product.

Really not that complicated. Obviously they're not tracking my personal consumption, nobody believes that.

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago

Are u saying if over night the entire customer base of meat as a whole stopped buying it would have zero effect? Certainly thats not whay youre saying right?

[–] java@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago
[–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It takes less land and water to feed someone wheat, soy or corn than to feed them beef, chicken or pork.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

what crops that are fed to beef chicken and pork are parts of plants that people won't eat for the most part. The same fields that grow the soybeans we use for oil are growing soybeans that are used as feed. The same soybeans that are used for oil are used for feed.

[–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This is sometimes true. However, e.g., about 4% of the farmland in California is used for alfafa, which is just for livestock. Alfafa is also a very water intensive crop.

Additionally, there are other uses that livestock corn feed could be put to if there weren't so many damn cows, so it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle.

I don't think there is a better use than making food. I'm fine with that.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

but beef, chicken, and pork continue to be made in increasing amounts. things are getting worse despite the fact that vegans exist. being vegan doesn't help the planet at all.

[–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago

World population increase + westernization of diets in China outweigh the tiny number of vegans in the western world. Your math doesn't check out.