501
NY bill would require a criminal history background check for the purchase of a 3D printer
(www.nysenate.gov)
this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
501 points (97.7% liked)
Technology
59590 readers
5201 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Are these lawmakers aware of the fact you can 3d print a 3d printer? Or at least, about 80% of its parts, and the remaining parts are indistinguishable from the random stuff youd buy at the hardware store? (Aluminum extrusion mostly, some gears, etc)
The only part they could theoretically hope to control worth a damn would be the printing nozzles, which are so incredibly cheap to buy bulk and nearly impossible to specialize.
Also you could take this to court and point out that you would need to also include CNC machines, Laser Cutters, lathes, and any of the other variations of tools that can be used to manufacture a DIY gun.
This isnt a problem specific to 3d printers, a CNC mill that can cut aluminum is also just as capable of producing the jigs needed to manufacture gun parts.
I'd argue a cnc mill makes a hell of a better gun than a 3d printer
It would, but it would also require more expense and skill and the "gun control is pointless because people will just make their own guns" lie works best when you can imply there is minimal cost, experience, effort and risk.
since a cnc is computer controlled it should be about as hard to learn to use a 3d printer
making the model and instructions for the cnc may be more complicated, but you can share those
Your gut feelings are not facts. CNC machining -- especially of hard metals and complex shapes -- is significantly more complicated and expensive than desktop 3D printers.
You can't just buy a $200 CNC frame, stick a palm router in it and come back an hour later to an AR-15.
Not that you're saying otherwise, but it's not anywhere that simple to make a gun on a 3d printer either. It's at least not considerably easier than making one clandestinely using any of the myriad options that have existed without 3d printing.
There are companies that sell small CNC machines marketed for the purpose of producing firearms. At that point all you need is the gcode and the stock.
Sounds like you shouldn't have any problem answering these questions then:
Alternatively, you could go on record saying that absolutely none of those things matter for gun manufacturing.
All of the answers to these questions are easy, and they all begin with a G.
G-code answers most of your technical concerns.
Google could have helped you find your other answers.
And the Ghost Gunner is what I found:
https://ghostgunner.net/product/ghost-gunner-3-deposit/
Why so incredulous about something that is obviously possible?
What grade and type of metal is required for a gun? GCode.
Best of luck with your gun.
I'm aware it's possible to CNC gun parts and have never claimed otherwise. But isn't it just fascinating how all the people insisting its how easy and cheap it is have never actually machined anything?
It’s entirely possible the linked product comes with instructions on what material to put in the machine. It’s entirely possible they might even sell the required material.
Based on the reviews and videos of the product your skepticism is unwarranted. You’re just being a dick.
This isn't skepticism, this is actual experience machining parts.
At no point have I suggested that CNC machining gun parts is impossible nor that no desktop printers are capable of it.
I have very specifically challenged people who appear to have no experience machining parts but nevertheless insist it's no more difficult than printing your homework.
It's a lie that's used to undermine gun control and you're repeating it verbatim.
I'd fire a 3D printed gun with a string from about 20' away.
So the big thing people, including lawmakers, whiff on this is you dont actually 3d print guns. You can 3d print superficial parts like the grip and whatnot, but the actual firing part of the gun is largely not 3d printable.
You can print it, and people have tried, but it usually only lasts 1-2 rounds before it breaks.
However, what you can print that is a huge deal, is the very precise jigs necessary to very easily manufacture the firing mechanisms of the gun, to quite a degree of precision. Then you use a drill or whatever to actually make those metal parts.
Basically, you can easily 3d print a gun maker, and then 3d print all the "extra" parts like grip and whatnot that attach to what you have created, in order to improve it.
Thats the actually serious part, because normally these sorts of jigs need to be extremely precise and are quite difficult to get ahold of. You need a fairly high end CNC machine to make one, or you have to buy it.
But 3d printers, even fairly affordable ones, when fine tuned by hand, do have the necessary precision to print such jigs, which makes them much more accessible for quite cheap... And once you print the jig, it becomes pretty easy to mass produce DIY guns.
This doesn't track. You can do way better with a manual mill and, as the other poster mentioned, a 2d paper template with some spray glue will do fine in a pinch. Drilling steel will heat the bit up enough to melt plastic anyway. You could set drill bushings but they won't be perfect and will drift a bit once they heat up.
The jigs in question are a lot more complicated than I think what you are imagining. If you look up on the topic (and possibly get added to a watchlist), it's fairly sophisticated equipment being created to handle a lot more of the finesse work required to produce a ghost gun that can actually reliably hit targets its aimed at.
Thats what separates this sort of work out from your run of the mill DIY handcrafted stuff, the guns in question actually have a lot of accuracy as 3d printed rigs can have very high precision once they have been fine tuned, and unlike stuff like paper they can be produced in 3 dimensions, which means you're working with a lot more than just following lines.
Think more like extremely augmented drill presses and routers and shit that can produce a lot of the parts you normally cant make yourself and have to buy.
I may be underestimating it since I'm a jig builder.
We're talking about different things I think.
People have been making paper templates for a long time, I can't see how plastic would have any real advantage. A plastic guide isn't going to constrain a metal cutting tool, at best it just shows you where you need to drill the same as a paper template. If you wander outside the lines you'll just mess up both the part and the jig.
If I were to set up a clandestine gun manufacurer I would try and design a product that could be made using mostly aluminum extrutions and paper jigs. That way it's easy to compartmentalize each step, harder for one guy to flip on you, and fast/cheap. Plus if you get raided you don't have a bunch of incriminating files cached on your CNC machine from previous runs.
It's a lot more complicated than that. We are talking a lot more than just "guides" when it comes to these types of jigs. Adapters and entire jigs that require a bunch of common parts you can by at the hardware store + the plastic parts to assemble.
Think more like creating bespoke fairly precise CNC stuff to adapt a drill or router. It's a lot more advanced than just paper guides, because 3d printers are for all intents and purposes CNC machines themselves.
Sure, but you still need to buy the actual firing mechanism parts of real guns in order to manufacture "3d printed guns".
And you can also make those same jigs and fixtures out of wood or any other raw material.
Nah thats the parts the jigs make, as well as a couple other key pieces that require higher than usual precision. At least, if you want to actually make a gun that can reasonably hit a target.
Not by hand with the precision needed, not for the parts in question. Unless you want to risk a misfire and losing a finger.
You can make a fireable shotgun out of like 15$ of pipe fittings
This is typical of politicians making laws about shit they don't understand. At all.