I would like to remind you that there does not exist any political entity called "Taiwan Province". The Republic of China abolished its provincial governments and the People's Republic of China doesn't even bother to maintain a shadow government.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I refer you to ISO 3166-2:TW where the territory in question is designated "Taiwan, Province of China" or "Taiwan (Province of China)". I do take the liberty of shortening out the "of China" but I am happy to refer to the territory by its full name if you will agree to do the same.

If you have any issues with the designation, I encourage you to take it up with the International Standards Organization.

[–] NateNate60@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I will cut to the chase here and say that the only reason for calling it "Taiwan Province" is if you are (1) a Chinese nationalist, (2) a Chinese propagandist, or (3) a person who got absorbed by (2). Nobody else in ordinary English discourse will refer to it as such. The typical usage is to call the Republic of China "Taiwan". Its government calls itself the "Republic of China (Taiwan)". Normal people call it "Taiwan". Taiwanese people call it "Taiwan". Don't forget; the "free area" of the Republic of China has two nominal provinces—Taiwan and Fuchien.

ISO standards are dry and mechanical, and most importantly, not designed to supplant everyday usage by humans. That is unless you also tend to write the date as 2023-10-03 and not the far more common "3 October 2023" or "October 3, 2023". The ISO standard refers to Taiwan Province, which is a province of the Republic of China and the People's Republic of China, however, neither province has a government and neither makes decisions on its own.

The common name for the area controlled by the Republic of China is "Taiwan". "Taiwan Province" is a Chinese nationalist dog whistle and there is nothing you can say to get around this fact.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I will cut to the chase here and say that the only reason for not calling it "Taiwan Province" is if you are (1) an American Imperialist, (2) a Japanese Imperialist, or (3) a running dog of one or both types of imperialist.

It doesn't matter to me what "normal people" call Taiwan Province because the vast majority of what you consider normal people are completely ignorant of the topic, the history, and the legal political situation.

You don't get a say in what terminology I choose to use. Your insistence on prescribing what exact terminology I can and cannot use dances on the border of pointless liberal semantic nitpicking and petty fascist power play.

No amount of semantic maneuvering on your part will change the fact that Taiwan, Province of China is recognized by international law and the vast majority of the countries of the world as being a part of China. No amount of quibbling over words or pidgeom holing me into your imaginary categories will change the fact that the vast majority of countries and international law recognizes the People's Republic of China as the sole legitimate governmemt of China.

[–] NateNate60@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I hope you realise that countries recognise the People's Republic of China because it's politically expedient. It's lip service since the PRC government is easily offended. So for many countries, it's easier to just play along, shut up, and let's get to negotiating some lucrative trade deals instead. Public support among Western nations and their allies for Taiwan's continued autonomous existence remains high despite their governments recognising it as a province of China. You don't seem to understand how useful doublespeak is in international geopolitics. To pretend countries say what they mean and mean what they say is incredibly naïve.

Your behaviour is exactly why I filtered out Hexbear in my feed. There don't seem to be any actual socialists on Hexbear, just people knee-jerkingly defending any country that claims to be socialist without any regard to whether they practice what they preach. Social democracies like the Nordic countries are way closer to socialism than modern China is, but all you have to do is point your finger and say "liberal" and Hexbear users start foaming at the mouth. I say this as a citizen of the People's Republic of China and a socialist.

This conversation has reached its productive end.

[–] BlueMagaChud@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

the nordic countries got a labor aristocracy of social fascism that was only allowed to exist due to proximity to the USSR and therefore a need to not appear obviously inferior in the eyes of the proletariat. since the USSR was illegally dissolved undemocratically against the will of its citizens the nordic countries have been dissolving their social democracies and will continue to do so in response to the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

Socialism: us-foreign-policy

[–] NateNate60@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

This is a tragedy of history. That is all I will say on the matter.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

I hope you realise that countries recognise the People's Republic of China because it's politically expedient. It's lip service since the PRC government is easily offended. So for many countries, it's easier to just play along, shut up, and let's get to negotiating some lucrative trade deals instead. Public support among Western nations and their allies for Taiwan's continued autonomous existence remains high despite their governments recognising it as a province of China. You don't seem to understand how useful doublespeak is in international geopolitics. To pretend countries say what they mean and mean what they say is incredibly naïve.

No, I understand perfectly well that the West is a fork tongued Empire of Lies. If you understood history at all, you'd know that the recognition of the PRC as the legitimate government of China was a movement that started in the newly decolonized countries of the global south due to Mao's principled anti-imperialist stance back when there wasn't much lucrative trade to be had at all.

Support for Taiwan among the Western public is irrelevant to the situation and driven by a profound historical ignorance, much like all of your argumentative flailing.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

Public support among Western nations and their allies for Taiwan's continued autonomous existence remains high despite their governments recognising it as a province of China. You don't seem to understand how useful doublespeak is in international geopolitics. To pretend countries say what they mean and mean what they say is incredibly naïve.

The vast majority of the world isn't part of the West. And they by and large do not pretend Taiwan is a country. Why do you think the vast majority of African countries do not even bother with a totally-not-an-embassy building for Taiwan? Who cares if a bunch of Swedes, Belgians, and Brits continue to pretend Taiwan is a country while their respective governments still pay homage to the PRC anyways? I don't know if you follow the news, but the West is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Countries recognize the PRC because it's politically expedient... And not because they're currently the dominant economy not only in Eastern Asia but in the entire Eurasian continent? Not because, for the period under contention, they were literally governing over the largest single population in the world? What the fuck are you smoking?

By any definition, the PRC deserves recognition internationally.