this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2023
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Україна | Ukraine 🇺🇦

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[–] jorgesumle -2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Did you ignore the part where I said they voted for a politician who said he would strengthen ties to the West? Then did the opposite? Then the people took to the streets until he fled the country?

No, note that I'm using the present tense. I don't believe what politicians say. They both lied.

To leave your country, or to have your country leave NATO/EU/western alliances/etc? I’m sure you could try and convince people in your country to leave NATO, but NATO support is generally at a long-time high right now.

Both.

but NATO support is generally at a long-time high right now.

I don't think so. They had to start a propaganda operation to boost support of NATO on social networks, because people are getting tired of socio-economic problems, and most people are tired of warmongers that only fill the pockets of the arms industries.

If you think consent can only be granted if it’s by every individual rather than a collective in a democratic vote, then sure. I think most people think democratic votes are the best expression of the people’s will. It’s hardly perfect, but certainly better than a self-appointed vanguard.

"Democratic" states are mostly controlled by oligarchs. I recommend to read the book the Ego and its own to understand why democracy is garbage. Not even half of the people with voting rights voted on 2019 Ukrainian elections, Crimea and separatist Donbass not included, so well...