this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
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25% of Taiwanese want independence.
6.8% of Taiwanese want to join China.
The others want things to stay the same, I.e functionally independent.
But hey let’s ignore the will of the people and impose imperialist rhetoric on why they don’t deserve self-determination.
25% isn't the will of the people lol
The 6.8% not wanting to be independent is the telling part.
Everyone else either wants to openly call themselves independent on carry on as they are in already being functionally independent.
tl;dr: No one wants to be part of China or not independent.
The vast majority of people want things to stay the same. Both independence and reintegration are very small minorities.
What that tells me is China has a lot of work to do to entice Taiwan. That's it.
1/4 is not very small.
Furthermore keeping things the same is to be independent or do you think China currently controls what they do?
After the disaster of HK, Taiwan is never going to join China.
1/4 is pretty small.
It's basically the same as the relationship between the US and Puerto Rico. Lots of autonomy, not independence.
25% want independence, 6.8% want to reintegrate with the PRC.
This means that 93.2% do not want to reintegrate with the PRC.
Okay, think of it this way.
What exactly is the relationship between the two?
Do taxpayers of one nation see their taxes spent in the other? No? That's because Taiwan is not China, and China does not own Taiwan.
No laws passed in China have effect in Taiwan, China has zero say in how the country is run, but everyone has to pretend that Taiwan is part of China or else Pooh Bear will throw a bitchy fit and invade.
The Chinese State is heavily invested in Taiwan, it's clearly not just an independent country.
China will only invade if the West keeps arming them, because China won't tolerate an arms buildup in Taiwan. That's a perfectly reasonable stance. Imagine China started shipping billions of dollars of weapons to Puerto Rico lol
Ah yes, calling a Chinese man a yellow animal. Definitely not racist.
Calling Pooh Bear the name that he earned from dissidents in his own country is not racist. The fact that he sends people to prison for it is insane. And the fact that you, as a tankie will deny reality is also insane.
And I wouldn't call the investment heavy at all. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3098200/taiwan-tightens-investment-mainland-china
You are not a Chinese dissident. It's definitely been magnified in the West because Winnie the Poo is a fat yellow animal.
Also, your article is paywalled, but it sounds to me like investment was heavy and now its being cracked down on. Why do you think that is???
Pooh Bear is a single man. It's not racism when your insult only applies to a single dictator. Tankies love to scream racism at calling Xi Pooh Bear, but are really just mad that we all make fun of their favorite dictator.
As to Chinese investment in Taiwan. Since you can't read the article, just know that Taiwan bans investment from any company connected to the Chinese government, and has tightened those rules to include international subsidiaries.
Other sources I've seen have put the grand total of allowed investments in Taiwan from China at less than $6 billion US. In other words, a rounding error to their GDP.
damn this man trashed you at every turn
The USA is heavily invested in China - does that make China a province of the USA? Does IMF investment in Africa/Asia mean that the West is morally justified in invading them whenever they decide to buy weapons off Russia?
It tells me that most people prefer an eternal cold war to escalating to a hot war. If China backed off and made it clear they would not attack, those numbers would change.
China can't actually do that without Taiwan making a reciprocal agreement to stop engaging in military buildup against China. Peace requires an agreement on both sides. Otherwise, Taiwan could just build up endlessly and then attack China because it left itself vulnerable.
Let us imagine China started giving Puerto Rico billions of dollars in military hardware. What do you think America's response would be?
China threatens to invade daily, so Taiwan should stop preparing to be invaded? No. Fuck off. China needs to knock it off and stop threatening to invade. Full stop.
Taiwan should stop preparing for war if it doesn't want to start a war.
Again, imagine Puerto Rico doing the same shit.
Potential rape victims should stop preparing to defend themselves from rapists at the bar? That's the logic you're spouting.
Stop resisting or else China invades, and China makes no promises to not invade anyway...
Taiwan isn't a potential rape victim, it's a guy standing across the street with a gun.
Just remind me, who keeps pushing here?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-61642217
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Most-read-in-2021/China-military-flybys-near-Taiwan-plunge-after-US-Japan-statement
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-military-aircraft-toward-taiwan-in-largest-show-of-force-2021-10?op=1
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/china-sends-aircraft-vessels-taiwan-days-after-us-102582314
To my mind, it sure seems like Taiwan is like a home owner with small kids who is constantly telling people that their neighbor with unchained pittbulls is dangerous, and then gets criticized for putting up a fence to keep the unchained pittbulls out of their yard.
China is like a rabid dog here, and you're saying Taiwan shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves? Do fuck off.
What are you even talking about? The original commenter began trolling by on purpose stating some basic fact even these people whose will you support would say is not true. There is no constitution or state that calls itself Taiwan.
I’m talking about Taiwanese calling themselves an independent country. They are because the people living there consider themselves as such.
The government cannot come out and say it because they will be invaded if they break the status quo.
Hence we have to look at the will of the people to determine such things and that proves you wrong.
Yes I know what you mean, but see, there is ROC whose contitution currenlty says Taiwan is only a region, and the PRC, who says the same. This is what I adressed before. And besides, by the poll you mention, that even undermines it, as when the rest supports things stay the same, means the majority supports Taiwan is a part of ROC.
Oh okay so the RoC is an independent country and the PRC is just a rebellious region of the legitimate Chinese government then?
ROC is a loser of the Chinese civil war, a separatist state, currently full with American funded politicians that paratize on the Chinese territory. And there is no state or constitution that calls itself Taiwan. Therefore the original commenters statement is plain wrong. I don't even know why somebody can make a false statement, and when called out, everybody in response come with complex analytics besides the point. I don't even understand what you mean.