this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
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Programming
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I think a strong argument could be made for the JVM as a whole to be honest, since it encompasses several languages. That being said, I'm not sure I've seen a backend written in Kotlin despite how prominent it is for app development.
I worked with really Big Bank who have their whole backend written in kotlin. It was such a great thing to witness because usually financial institutions don't give a fuck about clean code and modern programming languages.
That’s funny because as a backend Kotlin dev I literally haven’t seen an Android app written in Kotlin (at any of the companies I’ve worked at) but have worked since 2016 with Kotlin on the backend.
Before google announced support for Kotlin the split was massive. Most apps were backend with only a fraction Android. And Kotlin wasn’t even originally built for Android. It only happened to work and then it got popular after someone reported a bug on Android and they fixed it.
It's nice to see that it's in use for backend. I personally haven't seen it, but I always felt like it'd be a good choice for backend development.
Yeah it’s great! We compile it into native code and deploy it as lambdas on aws. It’s actually faster than most nodejs lambdas. I love it!
I’ve been using ktor in a personal project and it’s been a joy; all the familiarity of Spring but with Kotlin first.
Also, I know that Amazon has started to switch some projects to Kotlin, since they’re such a large Java shop: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/adopting-kotlin-at-prime-video-for-higher-developer-satisfaction-and-less-code/
Amazon has been adopting a lot of languages in recent years, including writing services in Rust and C# to my knowledge. It's cool seeing them branch away from Java, although I know that internally they use their own flavor of Java (Corretto).
I can tell you without any shred of doubt that Amazon still standardizes on Java-based frameworks, including Spring, and has absolutely no plans to switch. Each Amazon team is able to pick its own tech stack, but the ones that do not use Java or a JDK-based stack are extremely rare, and more than not are working on specialized applications such as mobile development.
I can also tell you without any shred of doubt, that there are many Amazon teams that absolutely hate Java and would rather build their stack on top of anything else (except PHP, which is rightfully prohibited company wide)
Irrelevant. What matters is what the company uses, not what some guy's personal taste.
Amazon standardizes on Java. There is no way around this fact.
Yes, some "guy's" personal taste matters, because if employees hate it, over time they will stop using it. When you get paged at 4AM because some NPE popped up in prod that could be avoided by any sane language you will think twice on the next stack you build. And since when does popularity equal quality?
It is branching away from Java, even if it still uses it primarily. Unusually, off the top of my head, I happen to know more .NET developers working there than Java developers, and interestingly they develop one of the services on AWS. I know that there are significantly more Java developers, but I don't think we are in disagreement that there are projects that don't use Java.
I'm sorry to tell you, but I assure you it is not. Some small subset of teams uses non-java tech stacks but that's because they have very particular requirements, such as being android apps or running on Linux devices. The bulk of the company heavily standardized on Java and has no plans to ever move away from it.
First of all AWS is not Amazon.
Secondly, I can tell you for a fact that C# is one of the rarest tech stacks at Amazon. Even Amazon's internal build system does not support it.
I'm afraid you're talking about stuff you know close to nothing about.
I'm sorry to tell you, but I assure you it is. Like I said, we both agree that Java is the predominant language, but at Amazon there are services written in Java, TypeScript, C#, and Rust to name a few.
First of all, AWS stands for "Amazon Web Services". It's not Amazon? Does Amazon not employ people to work on it? Perhaps you're thinking of amazon.com?
Amazon's country-named build system supports building many different languages, including C++, Java, Rust, and yes, teams have even managed to make it work for C# projects. It isn't a Java build system, it's a multi-language build system.
I find it funny how every single comment you post includes a personal attack. Since you seem incapable of backing up your own points with anything but insults, you can be the first person on my block list.
lysdexic keeps talking about Amazon but has no clue how it works. Take it from someone who recently worked in AWS. You are right in all your points.