this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
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Programming

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Over 10 years ago, I had this sort of a prediction that, with the massive adoption of a dynamic language like javascript on both client/server sides and test-driven development gaining a lot of ground, the future of programming would be dynamic and "feedback-driven". As in, you would immediately see the results of your code as you type, based on the tests you created. To naively simplify, imagine a split screen of your code editor and a console view showing relevant watch expressions from the code you're typing.

Instead what happened was the industry's focus shifted to type safety and smart compilers, and I followed along. I'm just not smart enough to question where the whole industry was heading. And my speck of imagination on how coding would have looked like in the future wasn't completely thought out. It was just that, a speck of imagination that occurred to me as I was debugging something tedious.

Now, most of the programming language world, seem to be focusing on smarter compilers. But is there some language or platform, that focus instead on a different kind of programming paradigm (not sort of OOP, FP paradigm, may be call it the programming workflow paradigm?). May be it comes with a really strong debugger tooling that's constantly giving you feedback on what your code is actually doing. Think REPL on steroids. I can imagine there would be challenges with parsing/evaluating incomplete code syntax and functions. So I guess, the whole compiler/translator side has to be thought out from the ground up as well.

Disclaimer: There's a good chance I simply don't know what I'm talking about because I'm no language designer or even close to understanding how programming languages and it's ecosystems are created. Just sharing some thoughts I had as a junior dev back in the day.

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[–] russmatney@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think of this as interactive development, or repl-driven development. You can work this way today in Clojure (frontend, backend, and lately even for scripting via babashka), and with lisps in general - the syntax lends itself to sending expressions to the repl and returning values to your editor.

It’s really the best way (my favorite, at least) to program that i’ve found for exactly the reasons you mentioned - it’s excellent for debugging and ensuring the behavior of small functions with minimal overhead.

Types are frustrating because they lock things up and they don’t guarantee behavior, which is really all a program cares about. I feel similarly about unit tests… it’s extra code locking up your behaviors, so make sure they’re what you actually want! A general problem with types is that you have to commit to some shape early, which can lead to premature design and basically some arbitrary DSL when you just needed a couple functions/transformations. Feels like the problem of OO at times.

On the other side, the trouble (beyond people generally not wanting to read/learn lisps, which is unfortunate) is that repl-driven dev requires that you take care of your tools, which means there’s a tough learning curve and then some maintenance cost for whatever editor you want to use.

At a career-level scale, in my opinion, the investment is well worth it, but it’s a tough thing to figure out early in your career. I expect most devs with a couple years of js/python see types and feel like it’s a huge relief, which is real, and maybe types make sense at a certain team size…

I think people should spend time in several different languages and paradigms - it makes the ones you go back to make more sense :D

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

I think elixir/erlang is also in the same class of languages as clojure in that sense. A lot of lisp-like languages tend to go into that trend, I guess. I love working in it.

May be my headspace was a bit too much in systems that benefit from rapid prototyping. Other class of systems might benefit greatly from type safety and unit tests. Even though, I still felt a bit iffy about unit tests and almost ideological spouting points of it. I struggled with unit testing for a few years and now I just use them for automation of bigger picture behaviour testing. Call them integration tests or whatever.