Today I Learned
What did you learn today? Share it with us!
We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.
** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**
Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
Partnered Communities
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
Community Moderation
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
view the rest of the comments
As a European, I would make 3-4x in my job if I was American. Of course somethings would be more expensive (education, healthcare, housing). Personally I would be better in states. I would still not want my county to change to states, because that inequality is not good for the whole country.
For the average person, America is much better than most places in Europe.
For people who aren't doing as well, though, it's much worse.
I think you're vastly overestimating how well-off "average" is in the US.
middle-upper middle class in America = rich in Europe.
I took a 50% pay cut to move to Europe. I'll probably move back.
Edit: the €200 uninsured hospital visit when I got here before my public insurance activated Was nice though. Actually finding a doctor here who can see me on a time scale not measured in Quarters is a problem though. Also drug availability for my issues is real as the public insurance doesn't offer a lot of them. It's still marginally better than the US and a lot cheaper but fuck me I need my medication or to see the doctor more than 3-4 times a year for them to adjust it.
Oh also the lack of AC given climate change is a huge problem. The BS about better insulation is just that. You end up roasting in an oven. The insulation and construction methods are also impossible to do modifications to without a lot of time and specialized equipment. A contractor I hired burned out their impact driver just hanging artwork. The toilets suck too and are embedded in the wall so good luck servicing them.
Upper middle class is the top 10%...So yea, 9 out of 10 people aren't doing so great.
Low end of Middle class, 50%, is still making a good college degreed salary (masters equivalent) in Europe. Middle end is making as much as a PhD in a tech company equivalent here.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-american-middle-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/
So 1 in 2 have 6 years of college equivalent income and are making more than most Europeans, and 1 in 10 are comparably rich.
Comparably a good PhD (I. E. Employable) in America can pull 120-150k relatively easily, and 200k after a few years. Making as much as 3 times the European with the same education and experience.
E: European college costs are much lower though so it somewhat depends on how much debt you have to take too.
You're reading that article completely wrong...the numbers you posted are medians for upper income earners. The median US worker does not have 6 years of higher ed. I think only 20-30% even have a bachelor's.
The median income in the US is 50k as of 2022. The 90th percentile is 120k-130k.
Those are disgustingly low for not having universal health or any social safety net like the rest of the industrialized world.
For me at least wait times for healthcare always seem to be shorter outside the US. Nearly 2 months for a CT scan vs same day
I had to wait 2.5 months for a simple blood test panel after seeing my doctor which took 2 months from scheduling.
In the US it was always same day at a Lab Corp outlet or on site. Cost a lot but I'd get results into the issue at least. The hospital here in Europe did a whole panel the same day I went to the ER....but my doctor didn't want to bother getting it from them. And imaged me twice too, but again the doctor didn't bother pulling those and ordered some months away.
I think you are confusing one European country with Europe.
Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, and Greece on the construction methods, AC, and Toliet. Haven't been to Spain in a few years but they are suffering in the heatwave. Italy was 80+F late night last night when I was in Rome.
Healthcare wise my home region has some of the best on the continent. Perks of being the HQ of a national champion of the largest economy on the continent. If I have an emergency the hospital is very well equipped to handle patients from the nearby plants. Was more modern than any hospital I ever saw in the US.
I'll see France in the next few months along with the Netherlands and Belgium. I'm not expecting things to be much different.
The Baltic and Nordic countries still have a mostly cold climate, so maybe things are better there, I'll visit. In my neck of the woods it just never stops raining which has been a mixed bag.
If we want to compare incomes outside of my area than it's even more extremely in favor of the US. I was basing my comparison on my employer's payscales along with IG Metall (largest Union in Germany). We have some of the highest pays on the continent.
What about happiness and quality of life?
Money buys quality of life and access to distractions thay may or may not make you happy.
My companies' Pension plan for retirement is one of the best ones left and still pays comparably dog shit to an IRA and 401k. It's irrelevant to me because I'm here to do work that makes me happy.
I certainly enjoy eating at the fanciest restaurant in the area every week because it's what I used to pay for dog shit delivery in SF.
I can travel whenever I want, etc.
The only thing I'm unhappy about is not being in the same timezone as most of my friends.
Edit : like shit, my Mexican intern is struggling with his visa and might need a €10k loan from me to stay in Europe and it's nice I can actually give him that. It's untenable for the rest of the native European people on my team to even entertain such a thing, that was 1 month salary for me years ago in LA.
I don't think that's true at all. Your middle class percentage is tiny compared to most of Europe, and while you also earn a bit more, that money goes to a much stronger social safety net in most of Europe, too (at least in our more successful countries).
I would also wager that middle class workers are more comfortable here, because of guaranteed 5-7 weeks holiday, 37 hour work weeks (for the vast majority), guaranteed parental leave, and just generally a very unionized job market.
If you have $20 in your pocket, and no debt you are wealthier than most Americans. The average person in the US isn't doing too great