The typical argument that we see is that capitalism is bad but USSR was worse and therefore doing nothing would be preferable to building a communist state. This is precisely the line of argument @poVoq@lemmy.ml is taking.

I feel a bit mis-represented here :) My argument is that both suck (for different reasons) and it would be wise not to rush into something and repeat all the same mistakes again that the people of the USSR did. Especially when it is evident that the people promoting it like @yogthos@lemmy.ml exhibit a fundamentally flawed understanding why the USSR as a socialist project failed.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm not sure how you can say you're being misrepresented when you say:

Yeah, maybe. But is it usually better to err on the side of caution and often the devil you know is better than an unknown one (as shown by history over and over again).

You're literally saying that it's better to stick with capitalism than to move to a Soviet style system that would result from ML approach.

Meanwhile, the only one here with a fundamentally flawed understanding of why USSR failed is you as clearly evidenced by your nonsensical claims in prior comments. The fact that you lack basic intellectual honesty to acknowledge that USSR existed under duress discredits any arguments you make against it.

[–] southerntofu@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

My reading of the original quote was that we are already fighting the beast, so why take a dangerous detour with provably-failed methods to do so? So it's not that capitalism is exactly better, but why trade a wrong for a different kind of wrong?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Failed is an interesting word to use when describing liberation of billions of people from the yoke of capitalism and colonialism. Only somebody who've never had to personally experience capitalist exploitation would make the sort of false equivalence you're making between communist and capitalist states.

[–] southerntofu@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Millions of people "liberated" so they can work in the people's factories and labor camps, spend time in the people's prisons for political activities, be executed for being gay or muslim, and starve while those in power feast in abundance. Please tell me more about how that's different from capitalism?!

(i'll ignore the ad-hominem which really doesn't serve your point :))

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I implore you to learn a modicum of history.

[–] southerntofu@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago

Are you saying the queer/muslim massacres of Stalin are just a dream? That Trotsky's political police was in fact throwing parties with the people they disappeared? Or that the labor camps were just a day spa for exhausted workers? I implore you to learn a modicum of history.