this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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asdfasdfsadfasfasdfWent to look it up just in case I was mistaken.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I usually just call them bigots.
I'm sure you have great success talking to anyone socially conservative lol
Why the fuck would I talk to people who want to oppress people? Stop talking to bigots. Ostracize them. They don't deserve people to listen to them.
Alright let's pump the brakes a bit here dude. Same team. I agree with you. But I don't get to choose who I interact with at work or even on a day to day basis at all times. You sometimes have to share the room with bigots. Especially when you live where I live. Do you have any family members with problematic views? Do you open the door going, "Hey there, good to see you, bigot!" I highly doubt you are as dogmatic as you're projecting. But if you are frankly that just means you're incredibly arrogant and/or have completely intractable view points, which is exact problem plaguing social conservatives. I promise you one of your current views will be dated one day and you will need to be able to change your mind.
@acastcandream @Neato You do not have to treat people with respect who do not treat others with respect. You do not have to advocate for civil rights for people who advocate for taking away civil rights. You do not have to tolerate intolerance. Tolerating intolerance makes society intolerant.
I am very much in the “you don’t have to tolerate intolerance“ mindset.  But the sad fact is we sometimes have to interact with people we do not like. It’s not always a choice, and I try to avoid them or call them out whenever it is a choice.
@acastcandream interacting with people does not imply tolerating them. Non-tolerance does not have to mean you instantly kick them out of any space you are in, when that would cause problems for you.
The other guy says otherwise. They have clearly never stepped foot outside of a very, very progressive bubble. Some of us have to live in shitholes like the deep south and do not have the flexibility they so clearly enjoy.
@acastcandream The other guy says "why the fuck would I want to talk to [bigots]?" And that is a good question for you. Why the fuck would you want to? Sometimes you have to, but why would you want to?
When did I ever say I wanted to? I repeatedly say it's out of necessity, about survival. I don't get to just scream at a cashier, call him a bigot, and walk out. These are luxuries and fantasies.
I don't speak to family members that are bigots. I don't tolerate bigot strangers. And I don't tolerate bigots that are coworkers.
You do, in fact, have a choice.
safasfsda
If I work with bigots, I don't know about it, because I don't talk politics at work. If I did find out I worked with a bigot, I'd make it clear that at cannot work together and ask for differing assignments.
If I find it that a stranger I'm dealing with is a bigot (also rare, because politics doesn't come up often with strangers), I walk away. If a business owner is a bigot, I do not shop with them.
If I find bigots online, I block them.
The magical place I live is called being principled and using the tools at my disposal to ignore bigots.
I was mostly talking about online or in personal situations but let's address.
For most people this is unfortunately true. I would encourage people, when possible, to seek employment at places that prevent bigots. For me, my giant employer has an Equal Opportunity office. You'll get fired for being openly bigoted, and people have.
I talk to my dad only to make my mom happy. A few times a year. If he starts in on politics, I leave the room or at least ignore him. Non-engagement.
That's just it: if you have to interface with a known bigot, stick to professional topics. If they bring up bigotry, leave if you can, ignore if you can't. Ostracizing people also includes minimal engagement. There's also tacts for dog whistling "jokes" like pretending ignorance and asking them to explain.
Yes. I am totally arrogant and intractable for not wanting to hear about how black people, gay people and women should have their rights taken away. I'll listen to alternative viewpoints until they dive into fascism and similar. Then they can fuck off.
Lol. No shit? I've been doing that since my early 20s. I look back at my past and regret. I can only do better if I change. I hope I realize quickly when my viewpoints are dated and offensive so I can change them.
I find it particularly offensive you are seemingly preaching civility in the face of oppression. Whenever you can get away with it, FUCK civility. Being polite while taking away rights is what American Conservatives have been doing since they lost the civil war. Don't go lose your job, but nothing is stopping you in your personal lives from cutting out the cancer. Not doing so just enables them and that's part of the problem.
I mean this is literally what I'm talking about. You have to engage with a bigot. It's just life. I can't believe you are trying to pretend otherwise man. It's like you don't live in reality yet here you are acknowledging the thing you're all bent out of shape about and arguing with me.
I am not talking about civility. I'm saying people have to live their lives. We don't all have the luxury of picking and choosing our employment to make sure that literally no one we work with is a bigot, and it's bonkers to me that you think that's reasonable to demand of people just because you landed a job that can actually match it (though I am willing to put money down there’s someone who works there that has some private views you would not like. That is a big office with a lot of people from different backgrounds. Are you going to start digging?)
But again, it's not about civility, it's about functioning in reality. If someone says racist shit I call it out or leave. But I don't just walk around hunting for signs that anyone around me maybe does something I don't like and then quit my job over one questionable person. Your call to action is ludicrous and I would gamble you don't even adhere to it.
Speaking of civility, I think you are both coming from a well meaning place and are making interesting points, but you are starting to make different points. It is even likely you are visualizing two totally different interactions when you are typing out your replies.
I could be wrong about that, but what is clear is that there is a lot of “you this” and “you that” in the discussion. As this is the nice Lemmy instance, please depersonalize the interaction or consider disengaging.
I am aware of the rhetorical device you are talking about, but I did not read that into the replies to you. Maybe I am just dense. What I do pick up from all corners is a lot of motive attribution without sufficient evidence, which continues with the post above. I think disengagement is a wise move.
We can all agree that there is a lot of daylight between punching literal Nazis and what to do about Uncle Bob who won’t shut up about border security, and leave it at that.
Unfortunately the person above is being pretty shitty to me for daring to even be around the Uncle Bob's of the world, but hopefully they'll one day realize that we can't all walk around in a bubble as easily as they can :\
A black man who attends kkk rallies: https://youtu.be/ORp3q1Oaezw
The lesson to be learned from Daryl Davis is that bigots should be ostracized, ignored, and de-platformed. Once their movement has been defanged and members isolated to their anti-social groups, you can more safely reach out to those groups to deprogram the people on the margins, if that's what you want to do with your life.
The story would be very different if the KKK still held social and political power. A black man who didn't support the KKK's mission attending a KKK rally would not last very long. No one should give these people a platform, or treat them civilly when they're spreading their brain worms in civil society.
Some methods will work for some, others for others. But what you said is the exact opposite of what he said. Like exactly opposite. Say what you want but please don't misportray others messages.
Sometimes people's message is different from their words. Please don't tell me not to say it like it is. And please don't try and shame the oppressed for not being civil to oppressors.
Wow.
To be fair, it appears that by definition anyone who disagrees with them might have a hard time getting through.
A more polite way of saying they're firmly stuck in their ways, unwilling to accept a different perspective.
No disagreement here
Yeah, there are a lot of people in groups that one might think "Hey, you know the Republicans don't like you and want to make your life miserable, right?" but are socially conservative and are not willing to let that stuff go. There are lots of predominantly Black or Hispanic churches from the "Fun is a sin," denominations like the evangelicals, Pentecostals and Jehovah Witnesses whose members will not make any compromise on issues like abortion or gay rights. Even amongst the more secular people living in these communities can still be influenced by the folks that live around them. You also get a lot of people, especially older people, who are still on board with the law and order, tough on crime shtick, believing this is the sure way to get nice, safe communities to live in.
Religious, older and concerned with security doesn't sound all that different to the stereotypical white conservatives that serve as the base for the Republicans in rural areas. They just need a bit more of a nudge to get there because they have to overcome some resistance to voting for a party that explicitly targets things that are important to them in other areas.
Huh that makes sense.
Can’t take all the credit. Someone used that term recently and it’s like a hundred lightbulbs went off for me.
If, somehow, Republicans ever stopped being so freakin racist, they would have an unbeatable supermajority in the US. The racism of Republicans is the only thing uniting the various faction of the Democratic party. And it's kind of funny that it's very rarely talked about.
It’s also what holds a lot of them together as well. 
The people they're aligning themselves with aren't just social conservatives, though. They're fascists.
Not literally every single person who has a slightly dated social view is automatically a fascist. Yes if they vote for fascists then they are fascist, etc. But you have to have a little more nuance in life man.
The people mentioned, Trump and Carlson, are fascists. There is no more nuanced way to describe them.
Maybe I am missing something but I don’t see either of them mentioned in this particular chain. Totally agree though.
They're in the original post.
Yes but I’m specifically talking about people you “wouldn’t expect” like black Americans and explaining it through the lens of being socially conservative. It is a somewhat separate conversation. Come on man. Everyone else got this, I know you know what I’m talking about.