this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2023
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GenZedong
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I think c/leftistinfighting would've been a better place for this.
I do admit that the whole Ukraine discourse gets rather tiring as somebody who should not by any means be affected by it (but is because of shitty global economy). I am generally not concerned about gringos dying due to dumb gringo shit, so all that matters to me is whether the capitalist class will become weaker from this war, which doesn't seem to be the case to me (please correct me though).
I wish we talked more about other conflicts and struggles going on around the world rather than hyperfocusing on the one the eurolibs are so obsessed with. This war has been a huge distraction for politics worldwide, which is why any electoral party and corporation can just shore up support by putting a blue-yellow somewhere in their branding.
As a very mild example, the WGA writers, y'know the guys who write most of our USA propaganda movies, have been on strike for 40 days now and are being boycotted by the same corporate news that can't shut up about Disney. Additionally Sinn Féin on NI just became the largest NI party, which was also boycotted in favour of Charles 3 and how hot he is. Recently Brazil's supposed socialist president adopted the anti-Cuban trend and reinstated the "Mais Médicos" program but focusing instead on paying fat salaries to Brazilian physicians, rather than providing actual care to rural areas. Those are not huge things by any means, but are way closer to home to those who speak Anglo than yet another imperial war in Eastern Europe. Yeah killing Nazis is fun, but there's other fun stuff out there.
I wholeheartedly agree that the news of the war in Ukraine is taking the attention away from a lot of important issues. However, denying the fault of Putin invading Ukraine does not help anyone anywhere. If anything, the war in Ukraine should be a reminder for the west of the suffering caused by conflict and the need for peaceful resolutions, cooperation and solidarity.
I do not think the capitalist class will get weaker from this, most definitely not the arms manufacturers. Pretending the war is good and just however is great for the capitalist overlords in Russia.
Oh, I sure don't deny (or affirm for that matter) the fault of Putin in it. If I were to go full conspiracy theorist, I'd say that the capitalist classes of Russia and NATO are actually working in tandem to draw out and prolong this war, if not the governmental administration of Russia/NATO/Ukraine. Neither Biden, Zelensky or Putin are gonna die from this war, no matter how much they like to cosplay in camo. I think a lot of the users here are reacting at how extreme and reactionary the narrative over this war has been in liberal circles. The overall NATO fanclub has been blindly dreaming about a prospect of an unlikely massive Ukranian victory, which is a really good way to sell arms and entrench foreign capital in Ukraine.
If I were to care at all about this war, it would be from the perspective of using all this training, equipment and personnel towards an actual communist front in the war (correct me if there actually is one). Or if we were to take the centrist route, the third world could just collectively close its ports for resources used in the war, like steel, or just food, and let the gringos starve until they sort it out. Less people will die that way. None of the solutions to this war proposed by liberals, like increasing military funding and donating tanks, do anything but increase the human death toll of the war.
I may be an odd duck here on this forum as I don't really care much about whether Russia wins or loses (and definitely am not holding out for a Soviet revival coming from East Europe), and am somewhat amenable to the ceasefire proposals from socdems all over, but those will just get shouted down as "pro-Russia" whenever they pop up. Putin is the least of our problems down south, and we should be wary of getting baited into the European's wars just because white people died on it.
Why would Russia prolong the war? They're only embarrassing and impoverishing themselves the longer this takes.
I mean, I'm obviously not very educated on the war, so would welcome any and all corrections. However from my limited perspective I'd be more surprised of NATO-aligned capitalists supporting it than Russian ones. Sure, the life of the average Russian may have gotten worse, and the sanctions may have given an economic shock, but removing foreign capital from local markets is a great way to empower local companies in those same niches.
Even the liberals are now infighting because apparently their sanctions are not ruining Russia enough. Capitalists as a class tend to thrive under instability and inequality, and being cut off from the global market means that their buyers and workers don't have anywhere to go. Just look at how much the local Mir and other local fintechs have only grown since Visa and Mastercard left. Sure, it hurts terribly if you're a small country like Cuba or DPRK to receive sactions, but Russia is big and economically powerful enough to be relatively self-suficient, which is actually a Latinamerican dream that has been denied to us ever since 1804 (or long before if you count the colonies). By the very reporting done by "Western" libs, the sanctions applied are actually quite useless. "oh no, how will Russians live without Pepsi and McDonald's while drowning in gold?" But the foreign capitalists also have a lot to gain with an unlikely full Ukrainian victory, and one needs only look at how liberal outlets are already normalising the concept of a NATO occupation of Russia similar to that of West Germany.
I think it may be important to note that capitalists do not actually have a nationality and will throw proles of any country on the meat grinder if they think that'll benefit them, no matter how much they pretend otherwise. Sure a lot of Russians may be dying on the war and it's a shitstorm to all those on the ground, but to the capitalist, this is just venture capital with blood as investment.
I welcome any and all criticism of my analysis, though, as post-soviet Ukraine/Russia is far out of my sphere of interest.