News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
Sure. I think that cutoff should be at birth. Because why should we have any baby born that will not be cared for?
my opinion is that the cutoff is viability. until the fetus can survive on it's own without significant intervention, it's not a living person. if the baby can be delivered and survive/thrive with minimal intervention, you're past the cutoff.
but, it's worth noting that i am not someone who can carry/deliver, so grain of salt and all. and, additionally, this is a compromise mentality. i ultimately think that the issue of abortion should 100% be between a person and their doctor with zero influence or regulation by government agencies.
For the record, she was, probably, past that. My wife was born at 20 weeks, over three decades ago.
at 28 weeks, that's entirely possible. but i also know that every pregnancy is different and no one-size-fits all approach to this particular metric would work. which is why, at the end of the day, it should be between a patient and their doctor alone.
I cannot carry a child either, but I feel if there should be a cutoff it would be when the baby would be truly aware. Brain activity isn't even enough to qualify. The fetus knows what's going on whether or not it can understand is different. Minimize pain.
I cannot carry a child either, but I feel if there should be a cutoff it would be when the baby would be truly aware. Brain activity isn't even enough to qualify. The fetus knows what's going on whether or not it can understand is different. Minimize pain.
so 20 minutes before the birth, you think it should be fine if the mother terminated the pregnancy?
That is an....odd take
Abortion is a termination of a pregnancy. 20 minutes before birth, the proper abortive procedure is a caeserean section. Regardless, no one should have the right to use someone's body without their consent, which means there should be no term-based limits. If someone doesn't want to give from their body to support another person, they should not be compelled (but are). Anyone agreeing to term-based limits has made a joke of their own position. It's not murder if it's before some arbitrary line you set, then it's murder until the baby is born, then back to not being murder. You flip flop back and forth pretending you have justification and everything you're doing is reasonable. There is no justification. If it's murder than the whole thing should be banned, but it's not murder, so the whole thing should be permissible. Compromising is playing into anti-choice'manipulative hands.
You're actually making a really good point that I never thought of, I just wish you weren't so antagonistic about it. I think you know that when the general public is talking about abortion, they're referring to the destruction of the fetus/unborn baby. Further, having a discussion about when the cut off is isn't being flip floppy or being manipulated, it's a complex problem despite how black and white you describe it.
That said, I'd never considered the idea that after a certain point, the abortion should consist of an early induced labor as opposed to the destruction of the fetus.
That's because they've been brainblasted with the slogan that abortion is murder. The only response is counter-slogan. Abortion is healthcare.
You say it's a complex problem. I assert you've been conditioned to believe it's a complex problem. The right to bodily autonomy gives a right to end the condition of pregnancy at any stage, whatever happens to the baby. What's complex is convincing a population that isn't even listening and has themselves been conditioned to not even realize the value of argument and so, they forgoe it.
So in that case, if a baby is fully viable with confidence that it would live if born today, you still think they should be allowed to be aborted?
Yes, I thought i was clear about that.
You were, I was just verifying because I've never seen anyone with this extreme of a view. Christians like to say we want to murder babies, this is just the first time I've ever seen anyone who kind of fits the bill.
It's not a baby until it's born. It's still a fetus even if it would have been viable if born. Any other deadline is going to be either arbitrary and not a good fit for some subset of cases. Also, wanting something to be legal is not equitable with wanting something to happen, and you should avoid falling prey to that false logic. I don't think the person you are replying to is saying they would celebrate a last minute abortion, just that they think it shouldn't be something that the blind hand of the legal system is applied to
It's not extreme. It's bodily autonomy. My right to my body should be as absolute as the right you believe you have to your own body. No one can take from your body without your permission (unless you have a uterus and are pregnant in the US) . Setting term-based limits makes a complete mockery of bodily autonomy and of pro-life. It can't be reasonable to think abortion is murder after a certain number of weeks, but permissible before. Surely, it's murder before. But pro-lifers pretend they're rational and manipulate the populace into agreeing their being reasonable and rational by setting these limits. Nowhere do they address the argument of bodily autonomy, because they can't, and so the next thing to do is lie, cheat, and steal the American populace, who has been trained to accept this kind of stupidity culture.
Nothing extreme about it, people just don't realize how early a fetus can be viable with today's medical expertise, so using that as a standard makes no sense.
so it's ok if someone chooses abortion a few weeks before they're due?
I can't think of a compelling reason to prohibit it.