Okay, so for your example, the money you'd spend on buying and maintaining a car, and all of the gas you have to buy to fuel it is clearly orders of magnitude more than the percent of you bus ticket price that goes to paying the percent of the bus driver's wages than then goes to their union dues. Like, hundred or maybe even thousands of dollars per month vs. a few cents a month. Many people have already done the math many, many times, and it always works out to be a lot cheaper to have dense urban areas. It's not even close in any scenario. This is not a new idea, and there already over a century of data all coming to the same conclusion.

Also, just the idea that unions are "siphoning off" money is really creepy. They are providing a very important service, and exactly zero percent of those union dues go to lobbying by oil companies to continue using fossil fuels even as global warming is becoming our present, not just our future. It is a much better use of funds than, for instance, paving 2/3 of the real estate in every city in America until we have 4 times as many parking spots as we have cars. Which is a thing we have done.

[–] beigegull@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Many people have already done the math many, many times, and it always works out to be a lot cheaper to have dense urban areas.

I just moved from a dense urban area to a rural area. Taking everything into account - yes, really - things are unambiguously cheaper here. That's a common result in the US. If you want to blame a single thing, I'd go with lack of housing supply in cities due to exclusionary zoning, but I hit some other weird figures like municipal water+sewer being more expensive than a well and septic system (again, yes, taking everything into account including construction costs).

[–] zephr_c@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

You are correct, but we're not talking about urban vs rural, we're talking about dense urban with mature mass transit vs car-centric suburban sprawl. There it is unambiguous that dense is better, and can it be done well enough to even be cheaper than a lot of rural communities. There are no cities in America that are currently doing that though. They vary from pretty bad to terrible, and the ones that are only pretty bad are preposterously expensive due to crazy unmet demand for cities that don't suck. That's not a city problem, that's a North America problem.