this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2024
44 points (90.7% liked)

United States | News & Politics

7212 readers
835 users here now

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
top 14 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] EleventhHour@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

Prepare to be disappointed

[–] crawancon@lemm.ee 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

it doesn't matter how it goes. each side will spin it as their guy won. People love watching all the breakdowns of bullshit analyst opinions. if Biden gets aggressive, the right will paint him as unhinged, senile. if Trump acts polite he's... well he's just made of mostly fat and shit and lies so how polite can he really be. if he'd be all calm, polite, knowledgeable and professional , honestly I'd be scared. like is it even him or a monkey controlling his body like wow impressive tech.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 months ago

If Trump acts polite he's...somebody else.

He's incapable of being polite.

[–] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

No one wants to hear about issues. They want to hear promises on issues, but they don't care to actually know, let alone understand, the policy.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Which is probably for the best because I think they're both pretty awful on policy.

That's really sad to say though. I wish people care more about issues and policy, and I wish candidates actually cared about and fulfilled their campaign promises. But that's apparently not the reality I get to live in...

[–] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Still the both sides thing?

Biden is demonstrably better on policy. For example, he has them.

Trump doesn't have any at all.

Yes, both sides suck. One side sucking more than the other doesn't change that.

Biden is awful on policy, and I dislike much of what he "got done" in his 4-years of office. And I actually voted for him in 2020. I voted for him for three reasons:

  1. get out of Afghanistan - both presidents promised that
  2. not start new wars - both presidents alluded to that
  3. not Trump - I thought it would be funny if Trump lost my very red state (Trump got ~45% here in 2016)

This year, "not Trump" is still true, but that doesn't change the fact that Biden still sucks on policies I care about. His website just says "defeat Trump." Here he is on "the issues":

  • "Protecting and strengthening our democracy" - basically "defeat Trump"
  • "Growing the middle class" - again, "defeat Trump"
  • "Fighting to lower costs for working families" - "unfair junk fees charged by banks, credit card companies, and airlines" - I guess that's cool? But this isn't really solving systemic issues, this is just pandering to poor people IMO and I doubt he'll actually do anything about it
  • "Building a fairer tax system that works for the middle class" - cool, the TCJA is sunsetting in 2025, which is why it's weird he's proposing a 28% corporate tax rate when it would revert to 35% if he does nothing; "cracking down on wealthy tax cheats" - looks like increased audits are starting this year, we'll see who they actually target
  • "Making health care more accessible and affordable" - "They strengthened the Affordable Care Act" - this only really applies to people who don't have coverage at work; earlier they said they'd strengthen the middle class, but this sounds like it's going to increase rates for the middle class to benefit the poor, so I'm getting some mixed-messaging here
  • "Fighting to restore reproductive freedom" - "Donald Trump overturned Roe v. Wade" - yeah, that was the Supreme Court, not Trump; "Joe and Kamala are fighting to restore the protections of Roe" - no they're not; they had 4 years and did exactly nothing about it, aside from some feel-good EOs, I see no reason to expect this to change in the next 4 years

And comparing them on the issues:

  • Economy - edge to Biden
    • Bidenomics - lol; at least Biden wants to spend money on stuff, instead of just lowering taxes and running deficits for no reason
    • "Mr Trump has blamed his successor's big spending for inflation" - nope, that was mostly you, Trump
  • Immigration - about the same
    • "Democrat to shift in favour of more restrictive measures" - big nope
    • "Mr Trump rallied his congressional allies to kill that bill, claiming it did not go far enough" - bigger nope
  • Abortion - about the same
    • mud-slinging against Trump, but no actual planned action
    • proud of overturning Roe, and prefers states rights vs national ban
  • Ukraine aid - eh, Biden is a wet blanket here, but Trump is potentially way worse; edge to Biden I guess?
    • I'm not a fan of Russia, so I'm fine with continuing aid; ideally we'd be pushing for peace talks, it's gone on way too long
    • Trump - ??
  • Israel/Gaza War - both about the same, and I disagree w/ supporting Israel here; slight edge to Trump for finishing it quickly I guess?
  • Taxes - edge to Biden because Trump is so bad here; we need to balance the budget, and neither seems to have a plan here
    • Biden could literally do nothing and tax policy would revert midway through his term, yet he proposes a lower corporate tax rate than what would happen if it reverts; so... ??
    • big nope
  • Healthcare - both are meh here
    • Biden's wins are mostly just natural changes to an existing program; I see few actual proposals here
    • ?? He seems scared to cut entitlements, and he has even less of a plan
  • Crime - Biden, because doing nothing is better than what Trump is doing
    • "Biden credits investment in public safety for the significant decline in violent crime after major spikes during the first two years of the pandemic." - no, pandemic lockdowns and whatnot likely caused the spike (people getting less social interaction), so this is just reversion to what would've happened w/ no pandemic; he shouldn't take credit for inaction
    • pointing out anecdotes to stir anger; big nope from me
  • Climate - Biden is bad, but Trump is somehow worse...
    • I see Biden's policies as largely cronyism, but at least he did something
    • more oil? WTF?
  • Gun laws - meh, both suck
    • gun safety laws just make things worse for responsible gun owners and don't actually reduce crime
    • tried to ban bump stocks, but that actually has nothing to do with gun crime whatsoever (how many mass shootings used bump stocks? I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure it's at or near 0)

So I guess Biden wins a slight edge here by being less terrible than Trump, actually trying something, and not messing things up too bad. But I disagree with pretty much every policy proposal he has.

Here are my priorities:

  1. peace in Gaza - don't send aid to Israel, engage Fatah, and try to bring someone to a table somewhere
  2. balance the budget - increase taxes and cut spending; my preference is to make the TCJA tax simplification permanent (nobody wants to mess w/ personal exemptions...), increase the tax brackets back to pre-TCJA levels, remove income cap for SS taxes, and implement a Negative Income Tax bracket to replace the EITC (max age 62), and offer people to opt-out of SS to get access to the NIT instead; spending cuts should primarily target defense (mostly foreign bases) and student loans
  3. end federal student loan program - I'm fine with grants, but aid shouldn't come with strings attached; I believe education is so expensive because schools know the gov't loans are easy to get, w/o gov't loans, student loans would be dischargeable in bankruptcy and the problem would likely correct itself (though likely reduce college enrollment)
  4. expand legal immigration, and simplify the legal immigration process
  5. climate change - I'd like to see a carbon tax, not subsidies (more cronyism) and certainly not more pollution

Neither candidate seems to have a plan for any of that, they are either silent or opposite. So that's why I consider both to suck, they suck on the issues I care about, and they're decent on issues I care much less about.

So yes, both sides are pretty much the same to me, and since I live in a very red state, it won't matter if I vote for the less crappy option. So I'll be voting third party instead, since I do have options that align with my priorities.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago

They can't fulfill their campaign promises and they won't get elected if they didn't make them.

People are stupid. They want the sweet lies even knowing that they're lies. If a candidate said "I'll try to do X but since that's mostly up to Congress then in reality I'll maybe get 50% of X done" then nobody would vote for them.

[–] stewie3128@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 months ago

Presidential debates are just TV for people to get mad at, especially with this election. We all already know how we're going to vote.

Also, the incumbent President always does terribly in the first debate. This has been true in 2004, 2012, and 2020 (2020 for other reasons, though), because they haven't debated anyone in years.

I'm expecting Biden to shit the bed.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago

I just hope something hilarious happens when two clowns go at it for 90 minutes.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago

We know how this is going to go right? Biden will give centrist answers that annoy all the liberals. Trump is going to let out a massive fart, blame it on Biden, then bitch about witch-hunts.

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online 1 points 4 months ago

Why is the fascist wearing red?

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 1 points 4 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


In the debate Thursday, viewers mostly want to hear about Joe Biden and Donald Trump's plans for the country and their achievements as president, more than critiques of each other.

Some will also be looking for whether or not these men have the mental and cognitive health to serve (a concern that voters have expressed to some degree about each of the candidates in previous polls).

Whether or not they watch it live, voters nationwide overwhelmingly think former President Trump should be more polite than forceful in the debate, and that includes a majority in his own party.

The economy, inflation, democracy, crime  and the border are top issues for voters, so those tuning in may be looking for what the candidates have to say about these topics.

Voters who are thinking "a lot" about the presidential campaign are particularly likely to tune in and watch the debate live.

This CBS News/YouGov survey was conducted with a nationally representative sample of 2,032 U.S. adult residents, including 1,514 registered voters, interviewed between June 24-26, 2024.


The original article contains 593 words, the summary contains 174 words. Saved 71%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] Dkarma@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

This is why Biden will win.

Biden will discuss issues.

Trump will discuss trump