Remember that this was removed at the request of a industry group that strongly recommends all new homes have natural gas lines run to all appliances just in case some future homeowner might want them.
this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
67 points (93.5% liked)
Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.
5243 readers
502 users here now
Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
When we redid our kitchen I demanded induction. We had a shitty electric stove before, but I love my induction. It's be hard for me to go back to anything else.
Induction suffers a lot from a "people are really silly" problem. Every time I talk about how great it is, how much I love my induction stove, the person I'm talking to goes "BUT YOU HAVE TO BUY SPECIFIC POTS THO." As if it uses some rare special pot and you have to go out of your way for it, when the reality is that everything I owned and probably everything they owned works just fine.
I got a $5,000 estimate to get mine installed. Luckily we knew a guy who only requested beer and to not clean up the drywall
Letting a guy run a 240V line from a panel that might not be able to handle it for the price of a beer? You like to live dangerously.
More backstory they are an electrician and he has installed several chargers already. They were not intoxicated during the process, least as far as I can tell for drinking 2 bud lites for an hour+ of work
Coming as someone who did the same themselves, basically all mains wiring is good up to 600v in the US, and all main and sub panels have breakers precisely because you can overload them just by using a decent portion of your circuits to their fullest.
Putting in new circuits or plugs isn’t exactly uncommon or particularly difficult. The biggest thing to watch out for being the extra 20% safety margin the NEC requires on top of a circuits rated capacity that if I remember correctly puts you a gauge up from what the circuit itself requires, but if the state certified inspector signed off on it then it’s almost certainly good to go.
load more comments
(5 replies)
Do induction stoves use more power than electric stoves? I’m guessing this is more of a problem for gas stove to induction stove upgrades.
Here are the specs for Tesla’s recommended charging outlet 240V 50A: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/universalmobileconnector_nema_14-50.pdf
Electric coil stoves and induction stoves use similar amounts of power. I think I've got my induction stove in a 240v 30A circuit.
The problem is that gas utilities bribe homebuilders to install gas appliances so as to create customers, and so the homebuilders don't want to install the electric wiring.
I saw this from Consumer Reports: https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/cooktops/induction-vs-electric-cooktop-which-should-you-buy-a5820670446/
"...Because the heating process for induction is both faster and more precise, you end up saving on your energy bill. It won’t be a major difference, but given that an induction cooktop is about 5 to 10 percent more efficient than an electric smoothtop, it’s still a better choice for the planet. "
That's not a huge savings, which might be a consideration given the cost of induction cooktops versus electric resistance stoves.
I have tried two different induction hobs, and find them to be well powered and convenient to use. I'm still in the process of deciding on which one to replace my gas stove/oven. It's a chunk 'o change, so I want to be smart about spending it.
Here's another comparison from CR: https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/ranges/pros-and-cons-of-induction-cooktops-and-ranges-a5854942923/
load more comments
(13 replies)
The peak might be higher for induction.
Not in the US, so electrical grid is different but induction on boost can use much more wattage for short periods, triggering the breaker. In my case the circuit was 16A if I remember correctly while a powerful induction should be on 25A.
The new home I purchased has a gas stove. Instead of replacing it, we're planning to just buy a portable (pluggable) 1-plate induction cooktop as our primary cooking station, and use the gas stove for prolonged cooking like boiling rice/pasta or pressure cooking. It shouldn't be an issue to plug the induction cooktp into one of the outlets in the kitchen right?
Get an electric kettle, too. Boiling water on either a gas range or a standalone 110V induction hob is pretty slow, but can be jumpstarted in an electric kettle to spare a lot of headache.
As someone who cooks a lot, gas ranges just plain suck to use. Don't believe the astroturf. They take 20x more work to keep clean (which is honestly the only reason I need to hate them). They also heat pans super slowly (even my previous cheapo ceramic resistive electric range, which had a 5000W hob, heated pans faster than any gas range I've ever used), they irritate your eyes and fuck with your air quality (and thus require much more powerful vent hoods -- which are loud and also suck your climate controlled out), and they rapidly heat up the room you use them in.
Buy commercial if the hob is going to be your workhorse, though. The commercial ones are just built to a way higher standard compared to the cheapo import brands. They cost more and are ugly, but they will last you way longer. They tend to have things like powerful cooling fans -- which can be a bit noisy, but it protects their electronics.
I can't speak for your local energy prices, but I'd be surprised if the gas is so much cheaper than electric that it is worth using the gas range for things that are going to be powered for a long time.
Though they aren't readily-available yet, there's a new product category starting to appear that's more renter-friendly for this -- electric ranges with built-in batteries that run off regular 110VAC power. The prices are high, since you are also paying for a relatively large backup battery (that can run things like your fridge during a blackout, for example), but for many they are cheaper than the cost to have a 14/3 40A line run to the kitchen by an electrician.
Do you mean Natural Gas or propane?
Because as someone who does a lot of cooking, I will pick gas every day of the week.
Especially for my wok, electric stoves never get them hot enough.
Yeah, I hear people say this all the time. And maybe before I actually was forced to use electric for a year or two, I also would've said the same. But no, I would never go back at this point. The electric experience is plain better. Literally the only downside is you have to use the broiler to char a pepper or warm a tortilla rather than doing it directly on the fire, and that's hardly a sacrifice -- the broiler does a better job evenly charring stuff anyway.
Highly encourage you to try a dedicated induction wok burner appliance. The type with a concave base. They're wildly more popular in wok-loving parts of the world for home cooking over gas for good reason.
You aren't getting wok hei with a gas range, period. They also simply cannot get the wok hot enough, and they distribute the heat in a crown midway up the pan instead of in the bottom where it belongs. Using a wok on a traditional gas range is just an over-complicated saute pan. And I agree, no typical electric range can do it either. Nothing gets a pan hotter than induction, but a typical induction range doesn't interface properly with a wok to make it happen. Only a dedicated wok cooker does the job. That means either one of those insane commercial jet engine 120k BTU cookers like they have in the serious wok restaurants, a backyard stovepipe-style coal wok cooker, or a dedicated wok appliance.
Better, they aren't that expensive. If you really enjoy using a wok, one of them will change your life. They actually apply the heat the correct way: extreme heat concentrated in the bottom of the pan.
load more comments
(3 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
No issue. Those are specifically made for a standard outlet. They are just less powerful than a full induction stove top that’s hooked up to a 240V line.
Thanks, that's a good point. I used to live in a country that uses 220V as standard, so we could easily plug in stand-alone induction cooktops anywhere.
Right, assuming it's made for that. But it won't be anywhere near as powerful as a range. So it will work but not anywhere near as quickly.
My induction range required crazy thick wiring. 8 gauge, I think? Getting that done by an electrician cost more than the range itself.
It shouldn’t be an issue to plug the induction cooktup into one of the outlets in the kitchen right?
Just make sure it's the only thing powered on that circuit, since an induction hotplate can easily pull 1500 watts at full power. You could also get a 220v to 110v adapter and use the stove outlet for the induction hotplate, which should give you an isolated 20A circuit.
If the kitchen was made for gas, it's pretty unlikely there is a 220v outlet for an oven there.
You can't say for sure. My house has a gas stove and a 220v outlet for an electric stove. Most houses are wired for an electric stove even if it has gas, because not everyone is going to want a gas stove and wiring an outlet is easier than running a gas line.
This is what I did. New induction stovetop for $5000 vs an induction cooktop for $50 that I can also take camping? Easy choice. We use the cooktop for a big toaster oven for everything, including pasta, so we only need to fire up the gas range if we absolutely need multiple burners or a ton of oven space.
Our cooktop heats up water just about as fast as our electric kettle, which was surprising to me. I guess they both probably pull the same amount of power from the wall.
Can't recommend an induction cooktop enough. We got a Nuwave PIC, but I'm sure any cooktop will provide a similar great experience. If you end up getting a PIC, I recommend getting the case with it. We passed it up, but we've taken it camping a few times now and the case would have helped. It totally blows our camp stove out of the water.
Not quite sure why you're cut-and-pasting a version of the link without the paywall-bypassing gift token.
So if you have a gas stove, you might not have enough electric for an electric oven wired to your kitchen. Nothing new here. But for new construction, should you have to pay for that wiring if you're putting in gas?
Yes, because you're fairly likely to want to change out that gas stove — the homebuilders are bribed by the utilities to put them in.
100% yes. There's no future for natural gas long-term, so any home being built without support for electrified kitchen appliances is doing a disservice to the consumer. It's only a matter of time before the fossil gas death spiral starts and causes those prices to absolutely blow up. And frankly, given that electrical versions of modern appliances are universally better than their natural gas counterparts both in performance and lifecycle cost with perhaps with the exception of tankless water heaters or for people living in the near arctic, you're screwing over the average consumer by failing to do the electric right when it's relatively cheap to do it right during construction.
Even today in the still-relatively-early-days, electrification will save money for most homeowners. Building a new home that cannot be electrified just because the natural gas lobby wanted it that way is stupid. We have lots of building codes that are meant to keep houses future proof and that's what this is.
tank water heaters can store energy thermally and can help dehumidify if you get the fancy new versions, so tankless isn't always the right call
So if I am building myself a new house, I should be forced to install power for a stove in have no interest in using?
Code requires you install all kinds of outlets you may have no plan on using. Every 4' on the walls, last I checked, just because a house without proper electrical supply is unusable.
You're only whining about this oven outlet, though, so methinks you are not being entirely honest about your outrage.
load more comments
(1 replies)
If you aren't forced to allow for future upgrades now you'll want government funding to switch in ten years when the gas gets cut off. People have short memories about this sort of thing.
If the government’s gonna force me to do something then, yeah, they should be the one paying for it
Just sold my induction stove for 65 euro.
view more: next ›