All I can say is that both sides are wrong. Israel is an apartheid state. I was born Jewish but I do not have to side with Israel. I am far from an antisemite. Evil is evil.
this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
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Israel and Hamas are wrong.
Palestinians are simply victims.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. They are victims and they are being kept that way.
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They claimed 1,300 were killed, and that number turns out to be wrong...
...meanwhile they've killed over 13,000 Palestinians. It's not an eye for an eye, it's genocidal murder.
It's over 18,000 Palestinians now.
And that's most likely an undercount. Those are the official numbers from the health department, and they only count casualties that go through their system. They don't know what's happening in IDF occupied areas, or how many bodies are still under rubble that nobody is able to dig out.
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IDF definitely murdered a bunch of civilians with helicopter spray and pray.
I've seen mention of this a couple times but don't really know what people are referring to though I follow bourgeois and proletarian international news media. Do you know a source you could point me to about this?
Second one is in Hebrew, you'll have to use Google translate
Edit: here's an archive link to the second article
1400 to 700 civilians.
Now lets invistigate why they are trying to hide how many the IDF killed of those 700.
I have seen two credible accounts so far: a tank killing 14 and another instance of 3 civilians allegedly being held hostage.
But I have seen credible accounts from witnesses indicating a lot of confused firing with no way to fully determine what the results were.
Note, though
Israel counts both soldiers killed in action and off-duty soldiers in its military casualties, and so these figures include, for example, some who died at the Supernova festival or while visiting their family in the south.
It's a bit difficult to distinguish a burned body in a kibbutz as a civilian vs off duty military until there's a forensic identification of its identity.
You guys don’t understand they were all decapitated babies and we totally have proof. It is just too bad to show you.
Murder and torture of unarmed elders, women and babit is purely heinous, no matter the scale.
The exact number is only really relevant for historical purposes. Especially on this scale. At some point, a catastrophe like this really does become a statistic.
Large attacks like these cannot go unpunished, so the response would’ve been the same no matter the figure. Heck, even if it was a hundred people killed, that’s not something Israel could or should ignore.
And certainly, between the chaos, trauma and condition of some of the bodies, it’s obviously going to take a while to pin down an exact figure anyway.
Exactly, and they're doing a fantastic job of punishing the children of Gaza, keep up the good work Israel! Soon there won't be any children left.
Is the way Israel has been treating Palestinians something they should've ignored? Or do you reckon that's why the attack occurred in the first place?
But let me guess, Hamas are terrorists and the IDF are well equipped soldiers so really Israel was just forced into this by evil people.
And before you reply with "I don't condone yadda yadda ya..", know that that's exactly what you're doing, that's exactly what the media is doing, by always forgetting about where this started, and always pointing to the reaction of the people that are being deprived of everything and slowly eradicated.
What you're insinuating here, if not bluntly stating it, is that Israel's hand was forced, validating their reaction, and in the same breath saying that before this attack, all was well.
You can no longer claim that "this is not the way to go about it" after flat out condoning and supporting Israel's reaction as it exposes your bias.
Wow, a sane take!? I'm surprised that this popped up between all the anti-israel propaganda here on Lemmy.
The final death toll from the attack is now thought to be 695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children, as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139.
So? Does it matter if it was 1400, 1300 or 1139? It's mass murder anyway, and Hamas are still bastards for killing them. And Netanyahu is still a bastard for using it as a free pass on bombing Gaza. These numbers don't change anything at all.
Can one imagine a rave party with a thousand+ of people, and then imagine them all dead? Or a european-like district with housing, schools, shops for 13k people - you can see them on Google Maps, they were pretty sweet in spite of israeli politics - all leveled down to the ground. It's a rave party not unlike one happening near you, this neighborhood is not unlike yours. These people may not speak english, yet they share basic things with you, like, they could've liked the same songs, the same movies like you do, some of them could've even been trekkies. And now they are lost. They won't have a child, they won't share a funny story over drinks with friends, they won't build that birdhouse their elderly parents asked for. They are dead, non-existent, and all work put into making them proper adults is lost. And whatever it's a thousand, or a thousand of thosands, it's too much to ignore. Every person shot or slayed there is too much to ignore. There should be a ceasefire agreement first, it needs to stop.
I know right, imagine if it had been over 15,000 innocent people that had had their homes destroyed and their family and friends killed over something they had nothing to do with.
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Oh... the US (and the rest of the so-called "west") peddled hysterically hyperbolized propaganda to justify the genocidal actions of their favorite pet white supremacist settler-colonialist project?
Who coulda thunk it?
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