this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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Steam Deck

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[help][answered] Is pirated tutorials forbidden here ? (lemmy.sdf.org)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Diurnambule@lemmy.sdf.org to c/steamdeck@sopuli.xyz
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Hello,

Edit thank to PriorPtoject I discovered the modlog : https://sopuli.xyz/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModRemovePost&userId=1683334

I recently posted a tutorial to pirate on steamdeck which was removed.

I checked th rule and it doesn't appear to be forbidden are the rules out of date or did I miss a rule ?

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[–] timi@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Tutorials on how to use and install the legal side of emulators are allowed, it’s when you encroach on copyright that things become questionable.

Do not post links to sources of copyrighted materials.

Pictures of your Deck running software never published to PC are questionable. My biggest problem with /r/steamdeck is how it made me feel like I joined a bad faith community by buying the device.

It is important to note there are a handful of moderators and we discuss as a group before we take action. I am not the only voice, so you may opt to wait for others to comment.

I’m just so tired of the LOOK WHAT I CAN STEAL attitude of /r/steamdeck

[–] Diurnambule@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the reply.

I didn't link to anything, maybe it is because I mentioned two repackers.

I explained how to combine tools included in the deck (more precisely in package manager ) to be able to get pirated games.

But I guess that was to close of the border.

[–] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I think it's important for posters to see from the side of mods. I'm not a mod here and speaking out of my butt so please take everything with a grain of salt.

I am a big advocate of hacking and doing slightly non-acceptable things out of curiosity.

But I'm also not interested in dealing with legal threats or being pulled into weird scenarios all because one person has a strong opinion about right & wrong.

When I face that issue, I instead encourage the poster/author to instead create a separate Convo somewhere else that is outside of the responsibility of the mod team. Like, I support your actions but I'm not going to stress over it. Because at the end of the day, I'm just trying to provide a space for the majority and have fun with the convos.

[–] Diurnambule@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 year ago

Hello, I can understand that. That why I ask for the reason to be able to understand since removing a post is not communicating.

[–] Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's actually kind of funny that emulators, which explicitly violate copyright law in the US as a circumvention measure prohibited by the DMCA as well as infringing for any rom created after the 1920s (ie. all of them) which have not been placed into the public domain, are perfectly fine here because that doesn't "feel" like piracy since the games are not generating revenue.

Anyway, you're almost certainly looking for !steamdeckpirates@lemmy.dbzer0.com instead of this community. I didn't even know that community existed until yesterday with the kerfuffle over lemmy.world defederating from dbzer0.com. Streisand effect-ish in a way. Best of luck, and keep a keen eye out for the EIC.

[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It's actually kind of funny that emulators, which explicitly violate copyright law in the US as a circumvention measure prohibited by the DMCA

Except this is false. Emulation is legal per the DMCA, and this was settled decades ago. It's downloading ROMs that is illegal

[–] Economizer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Although I agree with you for the most part, as far as I understand it, there seems to be different layers to this.

Emulators are legal if they're built from ground up, but if they use any code from the actual system, it's illegal. For example, I think Dolphin tried to get on Steam, but they were disallowed because they used a "leaked copy of the Wii Common Code".

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The piracy talk recently have been kind of interesting, because a couple of the emulator communities I'm involved in require proof of dump for any help such as Yuzu's Discord.

[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

but if they use any code from the actual system, it's illegal.

Actually, this is not the case. DMCA allows some amount on code to be duplicated, just not the whole thing. You're not allowed to copy everything, but copying some code is allowed.

Also, the encryption key that was copied in Dolphin is just a random string of letters and numbers. That's not copywritable, so no copyright infringement happened from including that in the software, regardless of what Nintendo claimed

[–] Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz -5 points 1 year ago

They also are not permitted to bypass, enable, or decrypt any part of a content control system - even one as simple as ROT13. In fact, decrypting and format shifting (from cartridge or CD to storage, for example) without explicit permission is actually an infringing act, BUT it is not prohibited in certain special cases (known as "fair use") and if you are taken to court you can attempt to prove that your use was Fair under one or more of the legal sections dedicated to it. You are still infringing, but it is not illegal and there is no penalty for doing so. That is, as I state above, and very fine point in the law that is fun to argue but ultimately is just a die roll as to whether what you're doing produces enough smoke to get you targeted by content owners. Because if you get caught, you're probably going to lose - either directly, or your life savings in legal fees to prove your use was fair, and courts rarely award fees back to the defendant in these cases. (IANAL, but I have done work in performance rights, and worked with an IP lawyer in the business to ensure that everything we did was legal and defensible)

[–] Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's a fine distinction, and requires that no decryption or protection is removed as part of the emulation software - which is entirely true for a very nice, neat, theoretical legal argument. It's like saying Plex is designed for playing your format shifted media and there is nothing illegal about that, or that I arrange copyrighted songs for only for myself and never print them out, only perform them for my personal enjoyment or as part of a blanket license at a venue. All 100% legal, as long as nobody considers reality. I have no problem with any of it, but it's worth admitting that we're counting angels on the head of a pin.

(Note: I also run a plex server and I have format shifted my own physical media, of which I have kept the physical media and do not loan them out - as part of my collection).

[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

and requires that no decryption or protection is removed as part of the emulation software

This is false. The DMCA has an exemption specifically for bypassing access restrictions.

Also, inb4 the Dolphin topic, the encryption key that was included is legal. Emulators are allowed to copy small parts of code, just not all of it; and the encryption key is a randomized string of characters, which is not protected by copyright

[–] Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz -4 points 1 year ago

It just so happens that my congressional representative, Boucher, was responsible for the language added which allows bypassing the restrictions, and there are very few conditions where that is permitted. There is research and there is the clause to preserve Fair Use (and other rights under copyright law), but that does not extend or cover the clause concerning traffiking in decryption software, unless that has been added by legal precedent in case law (that I'm unaware of). If you provide software to decrypt or assist someone in decryption, it violates the DMCA the way it was written. The use of decryption software for research or fair use is permitted, but it's illegal to supply it.

I recognize that it's a fine distinction, esp. for ephemeral works. Marijuana is a reasonable analogy in my state: it's legal (again, in my state) to grow and possess personal amounts, but it is illegal to sell it, or for anyone to sell it to you. Anyone who sells it is violating the law, even if that is the only way you can obtain it. In the case decrypting a file for Fair Use is use (legal); selling is trafficking (providing a decryption algorithm); growing for personal use (also legal) is writing your own software from scratch to decrypt. (this is where the analogy breaks down because it's legal to sell growing kits, but it's not legal to sell decryption kits.)

[–] Diurnambule@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I guess they have to draw a line somewhere.

Yeah I posted my tuto in !steamdeckpirates@lemmy.dbzer0.com already.

That look like a sweet spot to start a pirate community for SteamDeck.

Seem a little empty now though

[–] Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It does seem fairly empty at the moment. TBH, I don't have enough time to play the games I've paid for (or gotten from Epic), but it's interesting that it's out there.

edit: there is about twice the unfederated content on the dbzer0 server compared to what is here on Sopuli (as of this morning) if that matters.

[–] Diurnambule@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah lemmy.world did a great publicity for piracy communities. We should thank them.

[–] BirdyBoogleBop@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think they just blocked !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com rather than defederating completely.

[–] Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz -2 points 1 year ago

Yes - good correction, thank you.