this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2024
131 points (76.3% liked)

Memes

45322 readers
2536 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net -5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (20 children)

Engels conflates authority with basically everything: necessity, organization, processes, violence, self-defense, etc.

This video thoroughly debunks the essay

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 12 points 3 months ago (11 children)

He literally just cites abridged arguments from “The problems with on authority”

Read "A Marxist Response to “The problems with on authority” ": https://hexbear.net/post/2141265

Also yeah, I watched it so everyone else doesn't have to waste time

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net -3 points 3 months ago (10 children)

Ok, I've read it and I'm not impressed. The post on hexbear tries to act as if they were seriously considering the anarchist point of view, they are constantly being disingenuous.

The biggest point of critique againstEngels is that he is effectively strawmanning anti-authoritarians, by using a definition of authority that differs from the anarchist definition in a fundamental way. While the hexbear author acknowledges that fact in the beginning and seems to take the (IMHO flawed) definition of the anarchist's critique at face value, he repeats the same mistake that Engels did and takes Engels' definition as the only logical one.

[–] Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Authority as indirect or direct force (essentially the engels) argument is the only logical way of definition authority, as the hexbear post argues using the example of the armed mugger. The definition of authority as blind obedience (as defined by the anarchist) is completely flawed in that it doesn't account for the source of the blind obidelience and isn't easy to measure.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago

In addition to not making sense from a historical development or material analysis perspective

load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (16 replies)