this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2023
251 points (92.8% liked)
World News
32057 readers
671 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Besides, insofar the comparison with Hawaii is accurate, it would be an argument for the independence of Hawaii not against the independence of Taiwan.
Hawaii is a US settler colony however, Taiwan regards itself as part of China.
said Blursty.
said Taiwan’s Foreign Affairs Ministry
I think what you mean is that Taiwan considers itself to be an independent state, whereas the People’s Republic of China, on the mainland, considers themselves Taiwan to be a part of their territory.
Difficult issue to even discuss without taking sides, really!
Should note that the “Taiwan is the real China” brand of politics has basically died out in Taiwan. Yes they are technically “The Republic of China” but China has said that changing that is tantamount to declaring de jure independence which would trigger a war.
Taiwan (for the most part) just wants to be Taiwan.
(See also why the “West Taiwan” meme is frowned upon and completely misrepresents what most Taiwanese people want.)
TIL, thanks, I have edited my comment accordingly. I have never liked the whole “west Taiwan” thing anyways - while I disagree with a lot of what the PRC does, I think unilaterally declaring that an entire nation should be governed by a different nation is shitty, imperialist behaviour. The only time I think it’s valid is for people expressing their wishes for their own homeland, and even then it can still be imperialist.
Historically (pre 1949) mainland China was their own homeland. The Republican government fled to Taiwan during the Chinese Civil War. But I guess the people of Taiwan have moved past laying claim to their homeland for various reasons.
There’s a lot of layers there, Han people have been settling in Taiwan since the 17th century and this originally Taiwanese-speaking group makes up about 70% of people in Taiwan. They don’t consider China their homeland anymore than Americans do the UK.
Han people who came with the fleeing KMT government are more directly tied to China, but even they have been largely Taiwan-ized politically since the democracy and identity movements of the 1980’s. Which is to say, very very few people in Taiwan see China as a homeland these days.
The KMT conducted a 40-year fascist reign of terror where they wiped out most of the native Taiwanese and killed tens of thousands of Han who agreed that the KMT had lost and that integration needed to happen.
Yup, the White Terror. I didn’t disagree with that.
My point was that the KMT coming to Taiwan was a wave of migration of people who while very anti-PRC saw themselves as fundamentally Chinese and Mandarin-speaking as opposed to pre-1945 Han settlers who were Taiwanese-speaking and in many cases had been living in Taiwan for hundreds of years already.
Today, those distinctions have softened, and polling shows that even the people who are descended from that wave of KMT migration mostly see themselves as Taiwanese first and foremost.
Of course they do, if they saw themselves as mainlanders they were murdered and chucked in mass graves. The entire society is shaped by the white terror