this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
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[–] reddwarf@feddit.nl 19 points 1 year ago (65 children)

Do you acknowledge that russia invaded and started a war against Ukraine?

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago (42 children)

Allow me to answer your question with a question: Do you believe in the right to self determination of people in the Donbas?

[–] Lmaydev@programming.dev 13 points 1 year ago (23 children)

Through properly monitored and implemented referendums, yeah.

By a random dictatorship well known for destabilising and invading its neighbors, absolutely not.

[–] Washburn@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In an ideal world where there was a good-faith international actor or organization who could take the role of moderating a referendum, and the outcome be respected by all parties, that would be ideal. However, no such organization exists. The institutions of the so-called "rules based international order" serve the interests of western hegemony. That is why, for example, Catalonia is not able to have an effective referendum for independence from Spain, and that is a perfectly fine state of affairs; just the way things are. Maybe a diplomatic complaint gets filed somewhere, maybe someone calls out how awful it is that police were interfering with the referendum in 2017, and they're not wrong. But ultimately, nothing fundamentally changes, and that is the point.

Should people just accept the way things are until an ideal situation allows them to improve their lives in a way everyone finds acceptable? What should people do if things are only getting worse, and there are no effective, good-faith actors to mediate the best possible solution?

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

until an ideal situation allows them to improve their lives in a way everyone finds acceptable?

Craziest part is that a lot of people that follow that line of thinking have also at least recognized the immediacy of police and prison abolition in the context of places like the US but can't seem to take the next step in applying the same logic to places outside the imperial core.

[–] Skua@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

Large countries invading and annexing stuff is not a solution to any of those problems. It is a regression to an even worse system.

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