ToyDork

1, I'm not an American.

2, tell me if the USA is going to last another 20 years because I doubt it. Now tell me if your fucking revolution's results will still be around in 248 years. ALL political systems are doomed to fail, so LEAVE MY LIFE THE FUCK ALONE.

3, trying to guilt me into giving up what little I do have through whataboutism makes you look like an asshole.

I just said, for anyone. Democracies included. This isn't about who did what, it's about how everyone has failed to create everlasting utopia and I'm sick of people assuming a given political system will ever fix any problem on its own.

My life is miserable because I have a disability that means I have to rely on others and was literally been screwed out of a happy childhood by my own government from 2001-2002. I can barely trust my government to give me enough to live on (~$20,000 CAD a year), and full-bodied lasseiz-faire capitalism would view me as human vermin, while all attempts at communism has proven to be endemically-afflicted with an authoritarian existence that would have me exterminated as "useless".

I'm not defending capitalism. I'm calling reality hell and calling each and every one of you my jailors for not giving a fuck how MY LIFE means NOTHING to you.

I never called any of YOU worthless or lazy or genetically substandard. You all seem to have no thought towards what happens to the people who will die when you revolt because they are TERMINALLY DEPENDENT on the status quo, nor do you care that history has shown over and over and FUCKING over that regardless of what type of government or economy you choose, revolutions ALWAYS fail.

I'm trying to say, this isn't about a fucking political compass to me, and I don't have a position on that compass. This is about how EVERYONE has fucking rejected me except my closest family and friends, and now I hate all of you equally regardless of your position because you insist I pick a goddamn side when no matter who wins, I DIE. So why SHOULDN'T I say that capitalism is evil, and communism is evil, and socialism is evil, and anarchy and monarchy and fascism and everything else we've EVER used to structure a society is EVIL, because IT DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

You want a fucking flame war? How about I fucking dox you all and steal a car to drive haphazardly to all of your houses and BURN THEM TO THE FUCKING GROUND?! No, I'm not serious, but THAT is what your political opinions are threatening to do to my life; take the few things that matter to me away and then leave me to die, or hunt me down and have me tortured until I break or die from the stress.

Fuck you. I own a computer, I have a bedroom, I play video games and read ebooks. That's all that I can afford, and you think I should give up everything except the bedroom. How about all of you give up your cars, transit passes, televisions, motorhomes, ATVs, boats, private schools, swimming pools, summer camps, vacations to ANYWHERE, IoT devices, smartphones, model train sets, gym memberships, single family homes, college educations, going out to restaurants at your own expense, collections of trading cards or china plates or beanie babies, keeping pets, having children, working a job that you like, working a job you are psychologically capable of doing, AND never owning anything expensive that you just think looks neat? Because I have none of those other things, and you expect me to give up my computer for your own benefit as much as the wealthy assholes do.

The problem isn't the money. Its that the money coming from fares doesn't cover the track maintenance. Besides, my point is not the cost because you're right on that part, but rather that...

• The cost is probably due to lower ridership than needed to make the line useful rather than wasteful.
• High speed rail lines are bad at low density nations/regions. So, like a fish in the air versus a panda in the air, neither rail lines nor highways actually function well in that situation, though highways are pretty crappy no matter what. The best solution is actually rural mechanization/electrification and an increase in urbanization, which - despite international impressions - has barely been done in China in favor of keeping the remaining impoverished people poor.

Believe me, I'm aware the money isn't the point, I'm saying that if you institute a government, even a communist one, you shouldn't completely ignore the currency someone has on hand or spends anymore than you should rely solely on the currency someone has or spends as the primary or only measure of their importance.

A penny versus a dollar should not define the people carrying them, but the person can usually influence the world using them, and whether you're a selfish or benevolent bureaucrat, the ability to know what kind of influence a person is likely to exert is the entire reason we are having to discuss politics with a degree of edge in the first place; Our leadership has access to that information and STILL aren't using it to fix things instead of filling their pockets, therefore each of us is unsatisfied. I think everyone who's posed in this thread can at least agree on that, considering this is Lemmy.

That might be why everyone's probably assuming I'm right-wing. I mentioned it (the highway system) with its criticisms because, while successful at remaining operational, the Chinese high speed rail system is, by virtue of being a rail system, much more efficient. It would be better if there were low-speed rail connections too, but as it is the Chinese high speed rail system is indeed a successful socialist(?)/socially-funded(?) intercity transit system. OIf course, the Chinese rail system has flaws like lines that lose billions of tax dollars every year (or rather the important part is that this says there aren't enough riders on those routes), but the Interstates were often built through areas in the middle of nowhere b ecause it made construction companies a shitload of money.

In short, you're right to mention the chinese rail, "succesful" in my eyes also meant longevity along with a national scale and the highways happen to be older.

Ever seen that chart of standard of living for the top 10% and bottom 40% of wealth in Russia since 1880?

I don't remember where it was but I'll explain.

1880 to the Soviet Union were completely unfair. 1990 to present was and is completely unfair. I am not going to argue in favor of capitalism because to capitalism I, specificly me as a person, am unprofitable. I would be killed in a cyberpunk dystopia.

During the Soviet Union, the standards of living were roughly equal, but dropped 66% below the standards of living the 10% experienced before and after.

According to a calculation, to reach a state of being secure from the climate crisis and have equal wealth, we would need to revert to the standard of living of 1960s America technologically.

I don't like capitalism or hate socialism. I hate that the universe works in such a way that my lifestyle - no car, living with my parents, and writing on a modern computer with fiber internet access for a living, with no possessions individually worth more than $5000 and a net worth of basically zero - is not fair under capitalism AND impossible under the kind of world YOU want to live in.

You want to live in a world where my only niche in life is too luxurious for everyone else? Fuck you, I'll just commit suicide.

Honestly, why not just peg the value of 100 of a a currency to the energy used to create a loaf of bread? Then bread will always cost close to 100 and other products will be priced according to energy and not speculation. The recipe would need to be standardized and compared but not automatically equivocated to supermarket/bakery/homemade bread, and changing it once the hypothetical currency is live would not be an option, but you're asking to replace the entire capitalist economy so I can only hope you understand a revolution doesn't come without risk and has never truly succeeded yet for anyone ever.

As far as I've ever been aware, socialism is the use of tax dollars to provide goods or services beyond simply the military protection provided by feudal governments.

That actually explains a lot, thank you. I'm just going to duck out now then since clearly I walked into a minefield of conflicting historical definitions.

Authoritarian nations I can name off the top of my head tend to be near the top of that "chart"; I certainly don't think Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China or Trump's America are "okay", especially not just because of the leader's skin color or ancestry.

What the fuck, you completely misread that.

Interstate Highways and similar systems are "successful" socialism, as far as I understand socialism, because they are a piece of tax-funded infrastructure that has outlasted and avoided issues that have proven inherent to soviet-style, communist nation-states.

Okay, then I'm willing to admit fault but... Which is it? Worker control of production, or production according to need?

Or are you honestly going to tell me you think Collectivism (worker control of government and economy) or Communism (according to need and with no profit-making allowed) are the only forms that socialism takes?

Not saying you're wrong, only that conflicting definitions do not help your cases, Cynetri and GreenTeaRedFlag.