this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2023
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Lemmy NSFW

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One of the admins at lemmy.blahaj.zone asked us to purge a community and all of its users because they thought it was full of child sexual abuse material, aka CSAM, fka kiddy porn. We assured them that we had checked this comm thoroughly and we were satisfied that all of the models on it were of age.

The admin then demanded we purge the comm because they mistook it for CSAM, and claimed that the entire point of the community was to make people think it was CSAM. We vehemently disagreed that that was in fact the point of the community, but they decided to defederate from us anyway. That is of course their choice, but we will not purge our communities or users because someone else makes a mistake of fact, and then lays the responsibility for their mistake at our feet.

If someone made a community intended to fool people into thinking it was kiddy porn, that would be a real problem. If someone of age goes online and pretends -- not roleplays, but pretends with intent to deceive -- to be a child and makes porn, that is a real problem. Nobody here is doing that.

One of the reasons we run our instance the way that we do is that we want it to be inclusive. We don't body shame, and we believe that all adults have a right to sexual expression. That means no adult on our instance is too thin, fat, bald, masculine, old, young, cis, gay, etc., to be sexy, and that includes adults that look younger than some people think they should. Everyone has a right to lust and to be lusted after. There's no way to draw a line that says "you can't like adult people that look like X" without crossing a line that we will not cross.

EDIT: OK, closing this post to new comments. Everything that needs saying has been said. Link to my convo with the blahaj admin here.

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[–] paradox@lemmynsfw.com 93 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Discourse like this sucks. Of course they are free to defederate but presenting this server as a place that allows abusive material is a gross misrepresentation.

I’m assuming the post in question was the one of imcherryblossom. Two seconds of Googling shows that they are a OnlyFans/Fansly model and proves they are above age, and she pretty clearly looks it too imo.

Equating that post with essentially abuse doesn’t sit right with me. Especially when this server has done a good job imo of banning even borderline content while mod tools improve.

[–] pastelmars@lemmynsfw.com 30 points 1 year ago

like, damn, let petite people exist and be sexy ;-;

kudos to the admins/mods here as they've been absolutely fantastic when I have issues

[–] anaisrim@mastodon.social 79 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@MikeyMongol

After reading your post over at lemmynsfw, it's pretty clear they were looking for a rationale to defederate and would have done that no matter what you did to prevent it.

You made the right choice if with an unfortunate outcome.

[–] MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com 53 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't know if that's true. I mean, maybe? Or maybe they just don't want to see certain things and if so, that's their prerogative. Some people may call this a platitude, but I truly think that's the beauty of the Fediverse -- diverse views, diverse approaches, diverse comfort levels.

[–] anaisrim@mastodon.social 31 points 1 year ago (7 children)

@MikeyMongol

It's their server. Their choice. Thanks for your hard work!

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[–] pastelmars@lemmynsfw.com 69 points 1 year ago (5 children)

you'd think a trans instance would understand that small bodies/tits don't mean child porn

should they ban us trans girls with smaller goods because we're just starting on HRT or aren't at all???

????

[–] MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com 85 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'll take "discussions I won't get into with a transwoman unless I know her incredibly well and probably not even then" for $1000, Alex.

[–] pastelmars@lemmynsfw.com 32 points 1 year ago
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[–] Fal@yiffit.net 60 points 1 year ago (9 children)

If the community in question was adorableporn, then this whole thing is crazy. No one in that community looks even remotely underage.

[–] KairuByte@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

B-but only teenagers can have braces! /s

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

My 52-yo Filipina gf has lower braces, despite having perfect teeth. When I asked when she was getting them off, she was giggling uncontrollably, "It's a, uh, fashion thing in the Philippines!"

Who knew?!

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[–] Realismasta@lemmynsfw.com 52 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So if an adult has a childlike appearance, they are not an adult; they are considered a kid. What even is this shit?

[–] Blamemeta@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Thats odd. lemmynsfw is pretty restrictive for a porn site.

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[–] MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com 50 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

As requested, the correspondence between me and the blahaj admin, posted with her permission. It started with this message (her* original message is on the bottom, my reply is on top):

  • I had used "they" for Ada earlier, which was mistaken. My apologies.
[–] Bendavisunlv6@lemmynsfw.com 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Okay.. so it was adorableporn.

They are clearly wrong. Glad to have that settled.

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[–] MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

At this point Ada apparently had some communication with @gavi@lemmynsfw.com on Matrix, to which I was not privy. He told me, and I said that I had responded to Ada via Lemmy message. He had to step away, so I took over correspondence with Ada via Matrix.

[–] MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com 68 points 1 year ago (17 children)
[–] fidget@lemmynsfw.com 48 points 1 year ago

Huge respect for the professionalism you've shown through this situation and in the way you run your instance. The quality of the content here is already impressive, and it's been the thing that's allowed me to cut my last cord with Reddit. Cheers.

[–] AnaisRim@lemmynsfw.com 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That exchange is absolutely bonkers. I'm sorry but I have far less respect for Ada after reading that text exchange. Glad I don't use that instance.

[–] MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com 60 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To be clear, Ada has her own imperatives and her own community, and I'm not here to judge how she runs her instance. lemmy.blahaj.zone means a lot to a lot of people, and as a queer weirdo myself I appreciate that a place like it exists on the lemmyverse.

[–] AnaisRim@lemmynsfw.com 37 points 1 year ago

Hey, you're an instance admin and this kind of collegial statement is entirely appropriate given your role here.

Me? I'm a newbie here. I don't have much to lose. My assessment of that exchange is: she bonkers. But that's just me.

[–] ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, I'm not familiar with who Ada is before this, but it honestly just sounds like she it's taking a very hard gut-felt position on simulated child porn, and explicitly refusing to consider the problematic implications of her gut feeling. Consenting adults of any body type can and should be able to be "adorable" as a kink or non-kink nudity or other expression. Even if I completely understand the need to heavily dissuade CSAM, that sub just doesn't fit that.

It looks like the turn in the conversation was the use of "mistake." It was accurate but clearly triggered Ada and she stopped listening at that point. I'm sure she is a good person worthy of respect, but she's in the wrong and I hope she reconsiders.

[–] astral_avocado@lemmynsfw.com 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If you see how she runs her instance it's no surprise. I'm sure the ban list for their instance is long and will eventually include the entire fediverse.

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[–] throwaway8632@lemmynsfw.com 36 points 1 year ago

Echoing the statements elsewhere here, you handled yourself very well, and it's quite a different primary source representation from what was being described on their announcement post of why they were defederating.

[–] Shit@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Wow that was all something... Anyways sorry you have to moderate all this. Thanks for the transparency it clears up the misunderstanding(?) for me.

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[–] Nubbly_The_Moist@lemmynsfw.com 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You had handled this as perfectly and professionally as one could.

It is unfortunate that she could not accept your reasoning and still chose to defederate.

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[–] nsfwTA@lemmynsfw.com 43 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I’ve seen both of these posts now, and it leads me to wonder what is the community? because this sounds like the same situation as the jailbait subreddit a long time ago, and if it’s literally a jailbait community then i’d have to agree with their decision to defederate. hosting jailbait porn is gross, equating that position to bodyshaming is insane.

[–] MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com 65 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (33 children)

Jailbait is by definition people that are under legal age, or at least pretending to be. If someone is of legal age they by definition cannot be jailbait. The appeal there is the violation of the statutory taboo, the allure of the forbidden fruit. That is not OK and we won't tolerate that.

If a grownup has a round face and is wearing braces, which is the post that I suspect launched this whole kerfluffle, that's just how they look. I'm not going to tell them that they can't be sexy, or you that you can't be into them being sexy, because of their face or their dental work. Now, you can see why someone might be concerned that someone that has braces might be underage, since many people that are underage have braces. But once we've confirmed that they aren't underage, that should be the end of it.

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[–] NorinTheRad@lemmynsfw.com 62 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not sure that's equivalent comparison. I'm not sure of the community either, but my understanding is that everyone involved is an adult.

R/jailbait was hosting sexualized content of literal children.

This is closer to blocking a community because you feel that the models under the "teen" category look too young, even though they are all technically adults.

[–] MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com 46 points 1 year ago

Yeah that's about the size of it.

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[–] painfullyseattle@lemmynsfw.com 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not sure why they think that sub is for women trying to look underage. The vast majority do not look like teenagers at all. Most of them are simply giggly.

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[–] parkomin@lemmynsfw.com 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

this community (adorableporn) is allowed on reddit and has 2.1m members there. why would you try to be more holy than the pope?

if it's ok for reddit and every ad company, then maybe this comm isn't that bad

maybe that admin was just flustered that their CSAM allegation was wrong and were unable to stop their demands from that point.

if that admin actually believes in their allegations: you can't ban young adults from presenting themselves in a sexpositive way.

aren't femboys also the same thing? it is a community of people that bases their identity on having youthful girlish looks. being "adorable" is also a goal of them.

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[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So much drama about something so silly. If their concerns were valid about the subject models being under age, or trying to appear under age, then that's one thing, but this is starting it boil down to a difference of opinion on what looks like CSAM....

They say yes, you say no, it's a whole thing of everyone having an opinion.

That's fine. Can't control what others decide to do with their servers. They're free to defed if they feel that's the only way to handle it.

IMO, it sucks to see this splintering of the federation over something like this, but it is what it is.

[–] tooren@lemmynsfw.com 34 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Yeah, like I'm 20 but based on my face some people think I'm 16, and other people don't. Does that magically make my partner a pedo?

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 25 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Apparently, according to some, yes.

It's dumb. But, they have an opinion, so....

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[–] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 29 points 1 year ago (7 children)

What's up with that instance? All I ever see is drama coming from them.

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[–] Rengoku2@lemmynsfw.com 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It is within their right to defederate from anyone as they please.

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[–] catgirl@lemmynsfw.com 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The thing I don’t get is they seem to host plenty of nsfw material themselves that would fall under that category of “child-like”. I’m not going to argue the specifics on where the line should be drawn, but I feel like they should at least moderate their own communities properly before such action against content that’s no worse than theirs

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[–] ass_destroyer@lemmynsfw.com 24 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Well shit. As a horny queer person I am active on both of these instances and I'm not sure how to feel about this.

[–] MikeyMongol@lemmynsfw.com 39 points 1 year ago

As a horny queer person I, too, wish that this had gone a different way.

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