this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2023
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Don't get me wrong. Apple removing audio jack was the biggest facepalm in smartphone history. And you can thank it for not being able to make an upgrade without sacrificing audio jack (and SD card too :/). But USB-C is getting standardized everywhere now (laptops, smartphones, etc.). What makes USB-C earphones not worth the switch?

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[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 68 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There's just exactly no upsides.

Among other things, a USB-C connector is less stable than a 3.5mm jack, and can twist the cable since the connector cannot spin.

Sure, it can do a lot of things, but there's no reason to break an existing standard if the proposed successor is inherently worse.

[–] Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I was looking for someone to mention the connection itself. To add to that the connector is a lot more delicate since it's some ~~40~~24 pins vs 3 or 4.

[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

AND if my one USB-C port wears out from use, now I need a whole ass new phone now as opposed to "oh damn, well the phone still works without headphones, I'll suffer for a bit until I can comfortably replace it."

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[–] jet@hackertalks.com 52 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (20 children)

Downsides of usb-c headphones:

  1. Bluetooth security risk surface, exposes your phone to more attacks. (Nobody has mentioned this yet)

  2. Most/all phones have a single usb-c port. Charging and using headphones difficult

  3. Usb-c port placement is awkwardly on bottom of phone while must headphone jacks are on top of the phone. Plugging in your headphones on the bottom of the phone with a dongle is awkward.

  4. The entire process of using a usb-c dongle or using Bluetooth headphones makes the entire system more complicated. KISS (keep it simple). The more complexity there is that can go wrong, the worse the experience. If I'm taking a important conference call, I want my audio to just work.

Not directly related: the whole point of removing the headphone jack was to sell airpods. First apple, then android, and even fair phone. Each time the jack is removed to push sales of the branded Bluetooth ear buds. It's a user hostile move.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-airpods-success

The excuse may be to save money, Space, water rating, but the reason is increased sales.

I personally still use a pixel 5A which had a headphone jack only because it's the B tier phone for markets where people are less likely to also buy the airpods.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is a good example of the general enshitificstion of a service. Make part of the experience worse to drive sales or engagement with another part of the service. Just like Reddit, just like Twitter... It's user hostile. It means the marketplace is failing

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[–] Teknikal@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

I am not an audiophile or anything but for these oems a headphone jack inclusion is probably pennys and wired is just superior sound, it's madness.

That said I use Bluetooth headphones mostly myself but that doesn't change the fact its inferior sound, something extra to charge and can add quite a bit of lag when playing games or other media.

Its a step backwards just to make a few pennys profit on a hundreds of pounds device. I think everyone should have the option to choose what they prefer.

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[–] macrocarpa@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The devices that you describe are incompatible with a standard that has been mature for 50 years.

The 3.5mm jack is everywhere, it is the standard. USB C is incredibly recent.

Put it this way, if you were to walk into a store and pick up any given electronic product with audio output, would you expect it to have an audio jack, or a USB C connector?

In your drawer full of random electric cables, how many have 3.5mm plugs in them vs usb a, micro, mini, or some propriety plug? And how many could you plug into a device and just...work?

So why do you accept devices that don't have this standard?? It is beyond me.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The 3.5mm jack is everywhere, it is the standard.

Just got a 1981 Sony EQ off eBay, made in Japan, all that! How the hell would I ever adapt USB-C?! I've got fittings in the drawer for all things 1/8", didn't even research what I needed to get this thing integrated with my stereo. Also, it has another gold standard, the 3/4" jack! I can cobble something together for free. Oh! I can also roll my own 1/8" jacks and wiring, certainly can't "create" a USB-C connector.

OP is stuck thinking digital applications. 1/8" is perfect for analog use cases. USB-C is excellent for charging and data transfer. Very different use cases.

(Disclaimer: I'm no sort of audiophile. Just and old guy with vintage gear, going with what works.)

[–] dog@suppo.fi 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
  1. USB headphones require new drivers constantly.
  2. USB headphones are likely to use proprietary apps for basic features like noise cancellation.
  3. Audio jacks use significantly less power/processing compared to USB.
  4. Audio jacks do not hog usb bus lanes, which may or may not be an issue for mobile, but on PC it is.
  5. USB headphones are in general significantly lower quality, because studio equipment uses 3.5mm or other standard jacks (XLR for microphones for example) as they cause the lowest interference.
  6. USB introduces overhead latency which is a no-go for production use.
[–] You999@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

because studio equipment uses 3.5mm or other standard jacks (XLR for microphones for example) as they cause the lowest interference.

Digital signaling is not susceptible to interference like analog signaling. Comparing three analog connectors to a digital signal is a false comparison. With a digital signal unless the interference is large enough to sway the voltage to the wrong side of the threshold it doesn't matter as it will still register a one or a zero. Analog signaling on the other hand is very susceptible to interference unless you use balanced connections which uses wave interference to remove the added noise.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This a good argument for any form of digital audio transmission, except headphones. Headphones exist to covert some signal into sound waves for the ears. This a a intrinsically analog process. At some point the digital must become audio for the ears.

The issues people have throwing away the classic transducer standard to sell rechargable airpods is valid. If phones had two USBC ports (top and bottom) it would help a bit, but it's clear the real intention of dropping the headphone port was to sell airpods.

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[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 34 points 1 year ago

The fact that there is more than one "standard" for USB-C audio is enough to hate it.

Analog 3.5mm just works with everything. No dongles, no drivers, no "unsupported device", no batteries.

It. Just. Works.

[–] Todgerdickinson@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Uses more power and it creates thermal strain on a single point-of-failure port if you want to both charge and listen to music with a poxy dongle.

All this β€œinnovation” does is create more e-waste.

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[–] DestinyGrey@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago (16 children)

I can't charge my phone and listen to stuff at the same time, and my headphone jack headphones work with every device but a new phone. Don't know why I would want to throw that convenience away all because Apple/every other manufacturer decided we should get rid of headphone jacks.

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[–] conciselyverbose@kbin.social 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's no reason to switch.

50 year old headphones are still basically fine except for the port changing.

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[–] Curious_Canid@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 year ago

When companies began to drop the audio jack I was annoyed, but I figured I could just buy a converter. Which would be great if there were a universal standard for connecting audio through a USB C. There isn't. There aren't even just two competing approaches. There are all kinds of different setups that sometimes vary even within a single brand.

I found multiple adapter that said it supported my phone brand. It didn't work. I looked deeper and found some advice on adapters that would work with more recent phone. I bought one based on that and it worked, sort of. The audio quality was not great and it would occasionally just cut out for a second. My third try got me an adapter that work reliably, but the audio quality is still mediocre. My best headphones are all analog, but I have to use Bluetooth with my phone because it provides better audio.

The physical issues, particularly the connectors, guarantees that USB C will never work as well. The lack of standards for implementing it make finding compatible hardware a nightmare. And if you manage to get everything else figured out you end up with the kind of sound you can hear from an audio jack using a $5 set of earbuds. It provides no benefits to the user, only to the manufacturer.

[–] fulano@lemmy.eco.br 24 points 1 year ago

Let's invert the question: what makes it worth the switch? If I'm going to change something, you have to prove why it's worth, not me proving why I shouldn't.

[–] ISometimesAdmin@the.coolest.zone 21 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I fucking hate the whiny answer of "but my/most existing headphones had an aux so I don't like USB-C."

The biggest factor for me is that it simply makes it impossible to charge your phone and use wired headphones at the same time without a special splitter adaptor... Which itself is impossible to roll up with your headphones.

It's designed to be such an inconvenience to the point that you're actually just incentivized to buy wireless headphones. And since it was Apple, that of course meant their very expensive Airpods.

That said, I happily use wireless Bose headphones now anyway, but I did have to ditch my audio technicas for that reason.

[–] conciselyverbose@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I fucking hate the whiny answer of "but my/most existing headphones had an aux so I don't like USB-C."

Except, you know, it's a statement of fact and wired headphones can easily last 50 years with no reason to even consider replacing them. We're past the point where there's meaningful improvement to quality over time.

[–] knexcar@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

Plus basically every other piece of audio equipment has a headphone jack, and there’s no reason they should start being manufactured with USB-C ports with all the added complexity, when all they need to do is send audio.

[–] ElleChaise@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

It's designed to be such an inconvenience to the point that you're actually just incentivized to buy wireless headphones.

That business model becoming the norm is exactly why I hardly buy anything new these days. I'll thrift, upcycle, reuse, hand-me-down, bargain for, get at the discount shop, commission from a local artisan, wait for the price to come down, and/or pick up from-the-curb items absolutely every time it's possible. Simply avoiding these festering boils on the asscrack of our economy that are big businesses has become a daunting chore of its own... β€˜He typed, into his smart phone’ I know, I know; I'm a dramatic bitch, but still.

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[–] Creat@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 1 year ago

I have multiple dozens of headphones that have a normal headphone plug.

I can charge my phone while I listen to headphones without carrying multiple adapters.

We can maybe talk once we get more than 1 USB c connector on a phone. Maybe.

[–] paultimate14@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It seems like you are assuming that the only device that I want to use headphones with is my phone.

I'm a musician. I've got tons of audio equipment I've accumulated over decades, most of which use a typical analog headphone jack. So if I fully switched to USB-C or Bluetooth headphones, I would need to get a powered adapter of some kind that would then digitize what likely would have been a purely analog signal up until that point, just so it can be re-converted back to analog.

Or I could have sperate headphones just for my phone. Which seems silly.

So I took the 3rd option: got a phone with a headphone jack. The Xperia still has a micro SD card too.

Also I have dabbled in soldering circuits and doing basic repairs. I can easily replace most analog jacks and repair most cables. USB C... It's possible, and I will try to learn to work with it eventually, but it's always going to be more annoying to work with because it has many more, smaller pins.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 18 points 1 year ago

Everyone's favourite old headphones not having a USB cable is likely to be the main reason.

[–] Nikki@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

i dont even use my jack much, i just fucking hate the lack of options. if my headphones are dead i can still use them with the jack, and i can plug into older cars that only have the jack without shuffling around for a dongle

taking away my options is taking away my service with phones, still using my galaxy s9+ till it dies

[–] pH3ra@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

USB-C is getting standardized everywhere now

3.5 mm has been a standard from the motherfisting 1950s

[–] Banzai51@midwest.social 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And just when you have everything setup with USB-C, here comes the new connection standard, USB-D. Eliminating the audio jack is about planned obsolesce.

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[–] mojo@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

There are way more aux jack headphones out there, and you don't want your very high quality headphones suddenly be forced to be considered obsolete just because tech companies feel like selling a different product.

[–] pgetsos@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I need a special adapter to charge my phone simultaneously

Also, I can't connect it without an adapter to my car, my headphones or my home cinema stereo

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[–] Saltarello@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

I cant sleep without listening to podcasts & i charge the phone at night so this is one of the reasons why i was reluctant to upgrade my old phone.

When I inevitably had to upgrade I bought a USB C headphone/charging dongle for about €15. All good, I'd been worrying about nothing ...Until it broke within a few months so I had to go without podcasts for a few nights whilst I waited for the replacements to arrive (might as well be prepared & buy a spare right?). Guess what? The first replacement lasted a only few months again. So far, a lack of headphone jack has cost me an extra €45 inside of about 6 months. Absolutely ridiculous

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[–] Zeus@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

because it's already compatible with everything

i have a cheap pair of earphones in my pocket (which i'm prepared to lose). another by the door. a more expensive set of headphones upstairs. a speaker in the kitchen. and when i get in a friend's car or go to their house, i can just plug my phone in and it works without the aggravation of having to pair to their speaker

tell me, oh "you can just buy a dongle" people, what am i supposed to do? buy one and accept that i'll lose it all the time? buy 5 and keep one plugged into every 3.5mm i own and don't own?

plus, y'know - takes slightly more battery, hassle to pair, can't charge and use dongle, all the other obvious issues

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[–] Serpardum@lemmyonline.com 13 points 1 year ago

Because I can't charge my phone and use the headphones at the same time. Only 1 USB-C port on my phone.

[–] Got_Bent@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I only ever use earphones when I fly, which is two or three times a year.

I have a crappy pair of earphones that I bought in a drugstore probably about ten years ago that work surprisingly well and drown out the various environmental noises on a plane.

So I have a perfectly functioning item that I own. I do not wish to be compelled to upgrade something that I use so infrequently because it's stylish or Apple wants me to spend more money.

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[–] sarsaparilyptus@discuss.online 13 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Because it sucks and the 3.5mm jack is better. Manufacturers should be forced to include it or pay a punitive fee calculated to far outweigh the savings of not including the jack, perhaps $5,000 per individual unit manufactured.

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[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Because while we have wireless charging now, one of the key lifetime limits on a phone is wear on the USBc connector, lost many of my phones that way.

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Because its not good to reward bad behaviour

[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 1 year ago

It requires extra hardware to get the same functionality I'd have by having a traditional jack.

Also the excuses these companies make up for removing it are always silly. No, the phone isn't too thin to have one* -- that's always marketing BS. It's always, always, always to save the pennies it costs to add a headphone jack. Those pennies of course add up during manufacturing.

They can save costs in that way because some people don't care. It makes a simple headphone jack seem like a nothing feature, and the narrative can be pushed that those who want it are simply latching on to the past. Something similar happens with the arguments for and against physical buttons vs. touch screens, especially in cars.

*there is a YouTube video (I believe by Strange Parts) where they add a headphone jack to an iPhone which Apple had explicitly claimed was too thin to have one.

[–] TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I haven't seen a single phone that has more than one USB-C port, and I would like to listen to stuff while these these phones charge their miniscule batteries.

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  1. I have aux earphones and it needs to work with some extension on new phones.
  2. Earphone while charging
  3. Enabling OTG for usb eaphone
  1. I want to be able to charge my phone while using headphones
  2. My laptop doesn't have USB-C
[–] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

I would need to replace my headphones, too. Right now I'm able to plug in my studio monitors, my earphones for biking, my wife's earphones, my kid's, my spares, ... I can buy cheap replacements, or repair then easily. Kid kept breaking his so I started repairing them, which turned out to be almost trivial. Mostly wires getting loose in the cups or the plug itself.

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