Linux

I wrote it here some time ago. Tried Linux Mint with the intention of finally switching from windows on my notebook. Bricked one partition that I forgot I had set to dynamic, Headphone jacks didn't work even after fiddling around with arcane parameters in the cli. If you mainly need the command line to set your system up and stuff doesn't work out of the box people don't have the nerve to switch and learn all that. Love Linux, great on steamdeck, have a couple of Virtual Machines to play around with on my old Poweredge server but it's not ready for me, the average user. That and I've to use windows for my cad work at my job anyways. I'll take the downvotes but you'll have to realize you are tech savvy people who have fun learning all that. Most people don't.

I've "refreshed" a couple coworker's old PCs with Linux Mint XFCE. It's actually gone pretty well.

"All I do is browse the net."

Okay, I'll put the browser right on the desktop, so you don't have to search for it. Be patient, it's an older computer. But at least this works, unlike Windows.

And I haven't really heard too much from them. Internet works. Basic needs fulfilled.

I feel like someone who knows a bit more could be more of a pain. But for very basic computing needs like paying your bills and surfing IG, it can go well.

Linux is not ready for mainstream users. I daily drive Mint, have a recent (2 year old) system, and still run into annoying bugs that would drive non-techies back to Windows. My current issue is my permanently attached external hdd mounting under a new folder name every reboot. Other issues I've had to resolve include (but are not limited to) bluetooth, graphics drivers, software repos, etc. I would not want to become tech support for somebody else dealing with their random issues because I recommended Linux.

Ill be honest I don't feel any need or desire to actively crusade for Linux or spread it. Microsoft will keep making windows worse, many users will eventually reach a breaking point. Just be there to support the people seeking a better path, easier than trying to convince disinterested people into throwing out their tools.

NOPE. Every time I do it, I have to give them a lot of help and I end up becoming their technical support staff; my quota is already full, I've done my part.

Good luck but as someone who is techy, Linux drives me insane every time I use it. Yes, it's a skill issue. I think that's sort of the nature of the problem regarding Linux adoption.

I'm capable, a quick learner interested in learning, good at following step by step instructions, and am really good at teaching others once I've learned it.

I've been on and off Linux for at least 8 years now and I feel like I end up hating it more and more each time I work with it. I will say, all of them are hobby projects of things that I just want, or tried to replace something from Windows by using my server.

I'm sure if it was just basic web browsing it would be fine, but I inevitably want to do something so I look for how to do it, follow a guide or the documentation and inevitably 5 steps in something goes wrong. Like, I genuinely can't think of a single instance where I've been able to follow a step-by-step outside of the Steam Deck and have it actually work the first time.

That aside, usually the amount of networking that has to be done manually is what gets me, bonus points if you are double natted.

Docker has made things better but it's still a pain in the ass for me. I enjoy working with computers and software but more often than not I do not enjoy my time working with Linux and by the time I finally get something working I am just wishing I hadn't wasted all my time trying to get it working, and wishing that I didn't care so much about this. Cause if I didn't care I could happily live without home assistant and my server. But I do care, so I have to work on it.

It's genuinely frustrating. Something as simple as Stable Diffusion - literally a git clone command - something I've set up a dozen times on Windows installs, just will not work on my server because it decides something is wrong following the install.

This whole time running Linux there have only been 2 things that I rarely have problems with. The first is Plex, since I first installed it on a RasPi using DietPi I've had nothing but good, smooth experiences. Once in a while there would be a hiccup but it was straightforward enough. The most difficult Plex has ever been is on my recent server build with an NVIDIA card, just getting hardware transcoding to work (which it at least recognizes the GPU now so I think it is). Oh, and stupid fucking permissions. God I hate permissions.

The other has been my Steam Deck, where I've had no issues through and through, from modding to random installs.

Anyway, I'm ranting like this because I'm so frustrated with Linux's ease of use/access. Technology has gotten so much easier to use that it feels insanely archaic being forced to tell Linux every specific little thing to or not to do. What's more frustrating is when you are following the documentation and it never mentions what to do if ______ doesn't work, it just continues on.

So all told... As someone who is confident with technology and familiar with Linux, I just have a hard time believing that someone who can hardly use an iPhone will have an enjoyable experience trying to, say, watch Netflix on Linux. I'd like to believe it, maybe my experiences have me biased.

And before anyone comes at me, I hate and get frustrated with Windows too, but I use it because when I try and do something it works, usually in a quarter of the working time. Surprising considering it's Windows, but of all the projects I've tried to do on both Windows has a much higher success rate. Like almost 100%. Off the top of my head the only thing I couldn't get working was DizqueTV on a Windows-Plex server (which ended up being why I moved it to Linux). Funny enough, DizqueTV wouldn't work on my Linux install either because of my ISP.

FOSS takes your time, not your money.

Things are about to get worse for onboarding those from other platforms. There’s been this massive push the last year to get every window manager to switch to Wayland & drop X11 support… meanwhile Wayland doesn’t support color profiles or color management (just sRGB). How are you going to convince someone with an awesome screen to drop down to sRGB? How will you convince someone with a poor screen that has been color calibrated to make it usable to go back to off colors? How do you expect content creators to migrate & still create content if they can’t have access to all the color tools they use in their workflow to come to Linux when Wayland won’t support them? A lot of Linux folk act like this doesn’t matter, but to a lot of people, a computer is a magic box that they interact with via a screen + keyboard + mouse, & if non-niche peripherals aren’t supported (which DCI-P3 is becoming the norm & saving a screen from a landfill can often be fixed to ‘good enough’ thru calibration), users will think it’s trash & unfinished.

Sorry, but it is tech-y. Not out of reach by anybody who is interested in learning, but ask the average person to self sign their drivers (required for any Nvidea card if you want to game and don't turn on legacy bios). Or maybe you want the latest version of Spotify on Mint and therefore need to add flathub using the terminal. With help or research, sure, not hard concepts to grasp. Without help though, it'd probably be a dealbrealer.

And once you'ce done both of those I'd consider you 'tech-y'

Honestly, most people just use their computer for documents and the web. If they have their browser of choice, Libreoffice or equivalent document suite, and whatever file manager comes with the window manager they're using, so long as they've used a computer at some point in the last couple of decades they'll be set.

I feel like the techy people oversell Linux because they don't know how not to be a power user. We tend to teach things the way we do them, and that's not good for beginners to learn things that way.

I try to make Linux sound boring. I establish that it will do everything that someone currently does, and show them that it will be in-support on their computer longer than Windows 10 will be, and it usually works out.

Get someone logged into Chrome, show them how to install Spotify so they can see that it is easy (and doesn't require the command line if they don't want it to), and get any other basics like messengers and cloud storage stuff worked out, and most people will be sold.

Getting into the weeds about how how FOSS is superior, or how you can customize everything can come later. Let a person actually get comfortable using Linux before you try to upsell the libre movement. That shit definitely scares people off.

Most importantly, remember that software freedom includes the freedom to use proprietary software. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. People will use Chrome, Discord, Spotify, and other closed source tools, and we should be happy they can do so on an open source OS.

Why does it need to grow? Seems fine the way it is now.

I really don't understand why so many advocate for Linux, FOSS, and an overall open web while actively making Linux and other free software as complicated and "tech-y" as possible.

If Linux isn't growing, what's the point? If it remains stagnant, its getting closer to fading away. We've seen the impact of Linux becoming more mainstream and known to the general public through the Steam Deck, and it has done wonders for the platform. Why do people actively not want it to grow?

Helping it grow doesn't mean being annoying like Edge pop-ups, simply throwing out suggestions to try easy-to-use distros here and there. And let's be honest, the average internet user can use an easy distro like Ubuntu or Mint proficiently after 20-30 minutes of playing around with it. We need to make it seem accessible so that more people will actually be interested in the first place.

Really happy to see a post being made about this.

Laymen are the greatest thing that can happen to Linux.

Hehe, I think it's more the Windows people who spread that urban legend. While I completely agree with you, I didn't learn anything new here 😉

Are we usually being elitist? I mean, you could dig on the forums for people being toxic and looking down on "newbs", but you can find that in both Windows and MacOS places. Honestly, this post could be considered elitist, because you are saying that people should be using Linux rather than Windows or MacOS.

IMO the problem with most kinds of Linux evangelism is that some people push it too much. They say to people that they should use Linux and it's better for XYZ reasons. While usually true, it puts the person in a defensive state and a desire to prove you wrong. After all, Windows has been fine for their entire life, why should they switch to something new?

Personally, I think the better option would be to work on letting people know that Linux exists, and is rather user friendly. Make them know it's an option for them to fall back on if they need to. And then at some point they'll get frustrated by Windows, and think "maybe I should try that Linux thing". They'll be more willing to try it and work with it because it was their idea, and they want to prove to themselves that trying it was the correct move. Fundamentally people should want to use Linux, not feel made to use it because it's the correct decision.

easier to use

Is it? A lot of talk has gone into Windows only being "easy to use" because people are used to it... But isn't that not just what being "easy to use" means? I'm a Linux user, I find Linux easier to use than Windows or MacOS because I've used it more. A MacOS user would find MacOS easier than Windows or Linux. That's just how it works.

You could make reference to things like UI design, interface layout and so on, but nobody is coming to an OS from a vacuum. They will have prior notions of how things should work from the OSes that they're familiar with, and complying with those notions will make things seem "easier" to them.

main choices of professionals

Don't most professionals use software that is only available on Windows or Mac? Like Adobe stuff?

They don’t understand distros, just pick Linux Mint LTS Cinnamon unless they’re curious.

Strong agree. We argue about distros a lot and we hype it up to be much more important than it really is. Either install Mint with Cinnamon, * mumbles * with KDE or * mumbles * with Gnome. Show them screenshots and ask them which they like the look of. Let them know they can switch it easily if they wish.

1. copy down your windows product key

I think nowadays Windows product keys are linked to your Microsoft account? Not sure how that works with OEM keys though (which most people with legitimate keys will probably be using). I think a physical code with numbers hasn't been used for a while now.

4. use rufus (a website) to put the iso on a usb flash drive

Why Rufus and not Etcher? Genuinely curious, Etcher seems to be the most recommended one.

7. erase the storage and install

I don't know why this seems to be an uncommon sentiment but new users should be using a dual boot. Like, this is not the time to commit to 100% full time being a Linux user. If someone tries it and doesn't like it they should be able to go back to Windows. Or maybe they want to use Windows software or games? Or even are just afraid of the commitment.

I'd consider myself a hardcore Linux user, but I still have a Windows install. There's no reason to delete it unless you are very constrained on space.

If they don't like Linux then they'd have to go through the trouble of reinstalling and reconfiguring Windows, which is not something I'd wish on anyone.

it takes 15 minutes.

It'll take longer than 15 minutes. Not everyone has a high speed internet connection, USB drive, storage or CPU. And once the installer is complete, you'll probably have to browse forums and guides for that one piece of hardware that should work but doesn't. And then spend some time configuring and installing all the programs you want to use. It's certainly something you should budget a full afternoon to at least.

Stop telling me what to do. Your post is exactly what you are complaining of. Those with the curiosity and aptitude will gravitate to the tech that serves their needs. Usually on their own, regardless of what anybody else tells them. How do you think Linux came to dominate Internet infrastructure in the first place.

Go preach elsewhere.

As much as I want more people to use Linux and divorce from Microsoft, I don't want to be someone's tech support guy, I've done it as a teen and as a young adult; I never want to do it again. When my parents have trouble with their computer, they don't call me, especially since I live in a different timezone and it gets inconvenient... they take it to a technician to get it sorted. If they take a Linux computer to a technician, they will likely just install windows on it and call it a day.

I wouldn't do this since I don't want to be even more tech support for people I know.

My mom has used windows for as long as she has had a computer and still doesn't know what the start button or the windows key are.

I've explained it millions of times.

I'm not signing up for more of that than we need.