This is pure oil company propaganda. I hate cars with a passion and want a car free society. We will get there but it will take time. But We need to get rid of gas NOW.
Anyone who spews this kind of filth is literally the enemy.
this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
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Fuck Cars
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I really do not think so. Oil propaganda would support cars rather than be against it. I'm quite sure this is directed at the people who think EVs are a full solution.
This comic ISN'T anti-car, it's anti-electric car.
Absolutely oil propaganda.
I already discussed this exact thing once before on Lemmy, I'll link to my old comment chain https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/3441189
And some other of the artist's comics https://twitter.com/GregVann/status/1085788036573540354
But in short, no, in context this artist is anti-car.
Why, then, does the picture with all the problems depict a gas car, and why is "tailpipe emissions" listed as one of the problems?
Also, usually corporate propaganda is done by less well-established cartoonists that don't have reputations to ruin.
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It's criticising cars in general, one if it's arguments is that EV's don't solve some lf the main problems of cars (which gas cars also have)
Is your reading comprehension in the shitter?
Mate, the whole comic shits on cars as a whole, each and every part that electrics and gas both share. The only thing making electric better being tailpipe emissions and nothing else.
The messaging here is clear, eliminate the car as a concept for transport and stop accepting lukewarm solutions as anything but unacceptable.
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Ugh guys come on, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good (or better). We cannot snap our fingers and fix everything. Incremental steps are necessary.
Local commuter rail, walkable cities, and nationwide high speed rail are all necessary to completely eliminate 90% of individual car ownership. We should be advocating for these systems of convenience which will make car ownership obsolete while incentivizing EVs while the infrastructure is built up, not demonizing EVs and making them appear as useless and a waste of time for helping fight climate change. Plus we need EV utility vehicles and trucks for professionals who need them to do their job.
Incremental steps are not personal EVs. They are diesel and electric buses. EVs eliminate 1 problem (tailpipe emissions) while creating 2 more (battery manufacturing, increased vehicle weight making road and tire wear worse, and making them more deadly - there's others, take your pick) and not addressing the other hundred problems with car dependence.
Buses use the same infrastructure as cars. Bus stops are stupid cheap in comparison to anything else. And then, bus lanes can be implemented to prioritise buses and keep them from getting stuck in traffic.
The number one (by a long way) selling vehicle in the US is a massively over sized truck. Designed to be so heavy to avoid falling under emissions laws.
There is no electric vehicle that comes even close to that. You want those people interested in electric cars. They don't give a single fuck about what your think about buses and nothing you will ever do in your lifetime will change that. Ever.
Getting people into EVs is an across the board incremental improvement in the exact definition of the word.
You're right about the massive benefits of transit and trains in particular would be so amazing.. but none of the people we want getting out of F150s give a single shit.
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It's not that perfect (public transport) is more difficult than good (electric cars). More often good is the enemy of perfect since the industry is lobbying for it and against the other
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Climate change is a big enough problem that it is worth prioritizing.
I see them as "diet" cars. Similar to if someone is trying to cut back on sodas, switching to diet sodas is a net benefit. That's not to say diet sodas are good for you or remotely healthy, they're just less bad than the alternative.
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Can I just have good public transit, or safe bike lanes, I don't even want a car.
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I'm not unsympathetic to the fuckcars movement, but I have to ask about the road salt. When it snows and the roads are icy, what's supposed to happen? What's the plan for getting around, for getting to work, for getting to school? We can be using beet juice and other less impactful de-icing brines, but you still need the cars to get people where they need to go. Is the argument that people should stay home? Are we suggesting that colder climates just shouldn't be populated? Busses need the road salt, too. Trains and trolleys de-ice their tracks. Even urban areas where you can walk everywhere need to salt the sidewalks.
Where I live it's common to spread gravel on the snow to increase grip. And then, of course, it is expected that everyone has the appropriate shoes and bike tires to not slip.
And even when salt is used, cars need a lot more salt per person than other modes of transport does.
edit: clarification
When I lived near a volcanic area, they used the cinders for winter grip. Played hell on car paint. So, add that to the runoff.
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When it snows and the roads are icy, what’s supposed to happen? What’s the plan for getting around, for getting to work, for getting to school? [...] Are we suggesting that colder climates just shouldn’t be populated?
This line of questioning is really important, and it's why I think there's no addressing our devastation of the environment without digging deep into the assumptions of our society.
Society, as we understand it today, requires all of us going to work and school every day, no matter the weather, otherwise it doesn't work. We can't live like that. It just doesn't work. We exist in the world, and our attempts to pretend like we are somehow apart or above it, that our daily lives shouldn't be impacted by it, are destructive. We just can't be in such a hurry all the time.
So yes, when the weather is bad, we need to slow down, focusing our efforts on our highest priority infrastructure, like ambulances, with everyone else taking a beat, or even pitching in. To do that, we need to rethink our society, because as things stand now, I agree with you, that's not really possible.
This is why I think degrowth and socialism are the only human way through the climate crisis. Capitalism is a death cult of infinite growth that forces each of us to contribute to our own destruction every day because we have to get to work to live every single day.
Yeah, I think the argument is that you shouldn't need the cars to get people where they need to go. This can be addressed two ways: either we don't use cars or we don't need to go (as far).
People should be able to travel with other modes that require less salt to deice, and cities could be built to not require cars for most trips. Salting sidewalks and bus lanes is better than salting those things plus roads and highways.
It's also worth considering that yes, people should be able to just stay home. People shouldn't be at risk of losing their job/home because they couldn't safely make it into work. Parents shouldn't have to rely on school as daycare.
I'd be curious to see if urban heat Island affects salt use. Maybe if we build dense enough, we don't even really need salt to cover 99% of the population.
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As much as I agree, these are different things. EVs are fixing greenhouse gases. While the others are also bad things, they aren't really global climate changers.
Except EVs still have a significant carbon footprint from their manufacture. So do train cars and buses, but to transport everyone in cars instead of public transportation would require orders of magnitude more materials, and therefore a much higher carbon footprint. Not to mention the poor land use that car dependency causes, which both leads to deforestation and impedes reforestation, which is a further climate change contributor.
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EVs may even lead to increased tire debris.
But less brake pad wear. The regenerative braking reduces a lot of the need for brake pads.
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Trams, trains, bikes. The Holy Trinity of sustainable transport that must be pursued instead of EVs for an actually livable planet.
Death to the car. Death to America.
I live in a city with about 2 million people. It has major sprawl and lots of guys with big trucks to compensate for little personality. The city has a brown haze floating over it that is a result of tailpipe emissions.
EVs may not be the solution to climate change, but they are helping my local area with air pollution. Well... they would if they were more popular. Every time a local buys an EV, ten more prosthetic penises are sold.
We hate cars so much, we've come full circle to parroting fossil fuel industry propaganda against EVs, I see.
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I love the childish smug energy of this comic which simultaneously suggests merely mitigating a serious problem is inadequate and also provides no proposed solution whatsoever. If solutions which have compromise because they are rooted in reality are a problem, I suggest finding a way to live in a world of fantasy.
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I bet there are statistics on just how much space is wasted on cars (roads, parking space) but I don't have them handy. It will probaly pretty maddening when only considering "urban" areas but I wonder if it's more or less of 1% of the world's total landmass ...
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I want public transport more than anything, but where I live there's little to none, I can't do anything about that other than voting for parties that apparently have little chance to win. What I can do is buy an electric car, sue me.
I just wanna say I appreciate people here making intelligent, good faith arguments on both sides without resorting to black or white thinking or getting too aggressive/ abusive.
I’m tired of people looking at me crazy because I keep suggesting we need better public transportation rather than fucking electric cars. We are 100% going to replace every car in America with an E.V before we ever expand access to public transportation. And we will do this because the car manufacturers stock prices will go up if we do.
Well obviously less vehicles of any kind would be a benefit. Cities designed around people with public transport options would always beat out a society where everyone has a car. I think there is more push on this in Europe than the US, where outside of the big cities public transport is virtually non-existent. Urban planning should emphasis central districts to create transport hubs where people eat / work / shop and therefore demand to make public transport. And outside of that cycle routes, footpaths etc.
But electric vehicles are still much better than ICE vehicles. Over their life time they account for 1/4 emissions (depending on how power is generated) and those emissions can be more effectively captured. And of course renewables bring the emissions down year on year. There is a direct correlation between NOx emissions and respiratory deaths so this is a good thing. Also, particulates are much less - brakes are not the primary source of deceleration in an EV (regen is) so pads don't see anything like as much use as an ICE car. Some EVs are even going back to using drum brakes where the dust is basically captured inside an enclosed drum. The tyres also aren't any worse or faster wearing than ICE vehicles so in that regard it's even.
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Electric cars are here to save the car industry, not the environment
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