this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2024
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First of all, I have more in common with atheists than religious people, so my intention isn't to come here and attack, I just want to hear your opinions. Maybe I'm wrong, I'd like to hear from you if I am. I'm just expressing here my perception of the movement and not actually what I consider to be facts.

My issue with atheism is that I think it establishes the lack of a God or gods as the truth. I do agree that the concept of a God is hard to believe logically, specially with all the incoherent arguments that religions have had in the past. But saying that there's no god with certainty is something I'm just not comfortable with. Science has taught us that being wrong is part of the process of progress. We're constantly learning things we didn't know about, confirming theories that seemed insane in their time. I feel like being open to the possibilities is a healthier mindset, as we barely understand reality.

In general, atheism feels too close minded, too attached to the current facts, which will probably be obsolete in a few centuries. I do agree with logical and rational thinking, but part of that is accepting how little we really know about reality, how what we considered truth in the past was wrong or more complex than we expected

I usually don't believe there is a god when the argument comes from religious people, because they have no evidence, but they could be right by chance.

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[–] platypus_plumba@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (21 children)

If most atheists identify with "lack of belief" and not "believe God doesn't exist" then I don't have much else to say because I think that pretty much describes myself. I just don't have a belief, I don't support or reject.

I feel that even if evidence is not given, we can't rule something as false. Let's assume the idea of God wasn't impossible to deny or prove. Do you think lack of evidence provided by humans, little animals who live in a dust spec for a relative short amount of time, gives you enough confidence to say "there is no creator"?

That is exactly my issue with atheism, that they think their human reason gives them enough capacity to take a position to something as complex as the origin of reality. It feels to me like an ant taking a position on quantum mechanics. It's just outside of our reach. Anything we choose to believe, even if rooted in reason, is a wild guess.

The most rational thing to do is just to stop guessing. I feel if people accepted their ignorance more frequently instead of taking sides without actual knowledge, the world would be a better place.

[–] Halasham@dormi.zone 3 points 4 weeks ago (20 children)

Do you think lack of evidence provided by humans, little animals who live in a dust spec for a relative short amount of time, gives you enough confidence to say "there is no creator"?

For some generalized creator figure? I can't disprove that, however I think Russel's Teapot comes into play at this point. We couldn't detect a porcelain teapot the size of a common teapot in stellar orbit between the Earth and Mars. So, currently, it would be impossible to disprove that claim, however there is also no reason to accept it. The burden of proof is on those who make these claims to support them, not on those who don't accept them to disprove every claim they could posit.

For any of the creator figures I'm aware of non-deist theists claiming exist? At least of all those that I am familiar with they have self-contradictory stated natures, operate in logical contradictions, and perform impossibilities. In short: They don't exist because for that not to be the case then the few things we can demonstrate to be true must be false.

That is exactly my issue with atheism, that they think their human reason gives them enough capacity to take a position to something as complex as the origin of reality.

The only times I've seen an atheist back their atheism just with human reason is when explaining logical contradictions about the asserted god. Most arguments I'm aware of use more than just logical contradictions in the opposing claim. More often than not I see them engaging with the proposed evidence for the claim and providing contrary evidence against it.

It's just outside of our reach and anything we choose to believe, even if rooted in reason, is a wild guess.

We use the terms 'rooted in reason' and 'wild guess' to mean different things. To me a wild guess is made in the absence of reason or without regard to it while something that is 'rooted in reason' is about as opposed to that as is possible, a belief that stems only from what it well supported by evidence, reasoning, or most preferably both.

I'm not sure I take your meaning for 'just outside our reach'. Are you stating that we're close to it but not there yet or that it is categorically beyond our ability to reach such that we will never reach it?

The most rational thing to do is just to stop guessing. I feel if people accepted their ignorance more frequently instead of taking sides without actual knowledge, the world would be a better place.

I'm sorry but this comes off as somewhat disingenuous directed toward atheists. We're not accepting the other side's guess and generally also provide reasoning for that decision when prompted. Contrast with the theistic position of the assertion of some grand causer or creator and subsequent assertions that anything not yet explained rationally is somehow the work of this unsupported asserted entity.

[–] platypus_plumba@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago (19 children)

Something rooted in reason can be a wild guess when the reasoning isn't mature enough to handle the subject. This is a subject that is out of our reach.

As you already pointed out, not all atheists think "God doesn't exist". My last paragraph was aimed towards religious people and atheists that have a solid opinion. I don't think accepting ignorance is something bad, I advice to do it whenever possible.

Saying "I don't know" or "you don't know" is much better IMO. In reality we don't know and can't know.

[–] bramkaandorp@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I think you are assuming more than is warranted. Why is it beyond our reach?

[–] platypus_plumba@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

It is outside of our current reach. Maybe in the future we'll have actual knowledge and have a solid opinion based on evidence. For now, believing anything, one way or the other is just pointless.

Again, my understanding was that most atheists believed "the is no god". Most people are telling me that this isn't the case. So my main assumption was wrong.

If saying "I have no belief one way or the other" is something an atheist could say, then I might be an atheist. I just didn't agree with the "there is no god" type of argument. "There is no god because there's no evidence so far" or "There is no god because religions contradict themselves". I think the origin of the universe and the concept of a creator are much deeper than the religions people built. Also deeper than our current scientific understanding of reality.

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