this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024
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Rights advocates in the United States are urging President Joe Biden to end his administration’s “complicity” in Israeli rights abuses after key members of Israel’s government backed the idea of pushing Palestinians out of Gaza.

Far-right Israeli ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich said this week that Israel should “encourage emigration” from the coastal enclave, home to an estimated 2.3 million Palestinians.

“If there are 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs in Gaza and not two million Arabs, the entire discussion on the day after [the war ends] will be totally different,” Smotrich said on Sunday, calling for the “voluntary migration” of Palestinians.

A day later, Ben-Gvir, who oversees national security, made a similar appeal, saying it was “a correct, just, moral and humane solution”, Israeli media outlets reported.

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[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes, it is indeed an opinion that committing atrocities is a bad thing to do. Well done on finally getting something right.

It's a VERY popular opinion though, one shared by so many people that the world has decided that people are not allowed to do that bad thing.

That the Israeli Apartheid regime is committing genocide, ethnic cleansing and domicide isn't an opinion, though. It's an objective fact by all definitions of all the words.

A fact not changed by whether or not some misguided Americans think or pretend to think that the atrocities of Hamas are justified or that the holocaust didn't happen.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes, it is indeed an opinion that committing atrocities is a bad thing to do. Well done on finally getting something right.

You're not dumb. You know that people disagree with you on the atrocities you claim.

For instance, it's impossible to have an apartheid system against another country. Israel is, by definition, not an apartheid state.

It's hilarious to me that you'll try to bring up the definitions of words after that - perhaps this is why your opinion is so extreme.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You're not dumb.

Wow, you've already doubled the number of things you've been right about! At this rate we'll only have to keep arguing a couple months more until you stop being an insincere moron!

You know that people disagree with you on the atrocities you claim.

I know that some people deny objective reality, yes, but that doesn't make objective reality any less real or any more subjective.

it's impossible to have an apartheid system against another country.

Palestinians, Muslims and Arabs living in Israel and Israel-occupied and/or -controlled Palestine are treated as, at best, second class citizens. Desmond Tutu agreed that Israel is an Apartheid state and he of all people should know.

It's hilarious to me that you'll try to bring up the definitions of words after that

I guess the truth sometimes looks like hilarious comedy to those who believe in ridiculous gaslighting such as that coming from Times of Israel, AIPAC and Faux News 🤷

your opinion is so extreme.

Yeah, it's SO extreme to think that the lives of Palestinians matter! Such an audacious notion! 🙄

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Palestinians, Muslims and Arabs living in Israel and Israel-occupied and/or -controlled Palestine are treated as, at best, second class citizens

You went to all the effort to cite Tutu and yet provide no evidence for this, because they're not, and they literally have representation in Israel's government.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

they literally have representation in Israel's government.

Yeah, because everyone knows that having 1/12 of the knesset be Arabs means that there's not systemic inequality and oppression of Arabs and other minority groups! 🤦

provide no evidence

here's some evidence you're gonna ignore or pretend to refute.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah, because everyone knows that having 1/12 of the knesset be Arabs means that there’s not systemic inequality and oppression of Arabs and other minority groups

It's proportionate to their population.

About 6.8 million Jewish Israelis and 6.8 million Palestinians live today between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River, an area encompassing Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory

This article is about the Palestinian territory, a different country than Israel.

Lol they literally acknowledge it.

The intensity of that discrimination varies according to different rules established by the Israeli government in Israel, on the one hand, and different parts of the OPT,

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's proportionate to their population.

No. As pointed out in the article you just pretended to have read, the Jewish and Palestine populations of the territories controlled by Israel are roughly equal.

This article is about the Palestinian territory, a different country than Israel.

"between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River, an area encompassing Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT)".

It's right in the opening sentence of the fucking summary the report starts with ffs! 🤦

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Gaza is not in Israel lol. It's an occupied territory, not part of their country. Hamas runs Gaza as the official government.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Gaza is de facto controlled by Israel and as such is their responsibility.

Even if Hamas wasn't a terrorist organization first, a political advocacy group second and a government as a WAY distant third, they still wouldn't be able to properly take care of the people of Gaza, given the inhumane conditions created and enforced by Israel.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Gaza is de facto controlled by Israel and as such is their responsibility

Both of these statements are false. Not "I disagree." They are false and they would offend the fuck out of Gazans.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They control the food supply, the water supply, the power supply, the fuel supply, the medicine supply and the international aid supply.

That means that they're in control and it's in no way offensive towards Gazans to acknowledge that.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Hamas didn't build any infrastructure with Iran's money. They built bombs. Israel voluntarily provided power to Gaza, but is under no compulsion to provide power to an enemy they're actively at war with.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Hamas didn't build any infrastructure with Iran's money

Where would they have gotten water for the cement or fuel for the machines? Money's not very useful when someone else is actively preventing you from using them on the things you need.

They built bombs

As does Israel with the tens of billions of dollars the US sends every year. Israel spends more than the entire GDP of Palestine on murdering Palestinians every year.

under no compulsion to provide power to an enemy they're actively at war with.

It's a quasi-occupied territory that they have made sure can't get power in any other way. For Israel not to provide power to Gaza is Israel preventing Gaza from having power at.

And they're actively at war with Hamas, not the entire population. The vast majority of which has never harmed a single Israeli citizen and over 50% of which is CHILDREN.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Where would they have gotten water for the cement or fuel for the machines?

Turns out the restrictions only applied because Hamas wants genocide. Money can, in fact, be exchanged for goods and services, and was for years prior to Hamas.

And they’re actively at war with Hamas, not the entire population.

They are at war with the government of Gaza, correct.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Turns out the restrictions only applied because Hamas wants genocide

So 6.8 million people have to suffer and die for it? You call that justice? Also, Hamas may want genocide, but they don't have the power to carry it out. Israel's government HAS the power and IS committing genocide.

They are at war with the government of Gaza, correct.

The majority of Gazans weren't alive the last time Hamas allowed a vote, let alone old enough to vote.

Hamas is not a legitimate government and their atrocities are neither the fault nor the responsibility of the civilian population.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Hamas is not a legitimate government and their atrocities are neither the fault nor the responsibility of the civilian population.

They are the government, and they have been consistently attacking Israel for 16 years, culminating in "Israel's 9/11"

Also, Hamas may want genocide, but they don’t have the power to carry it out.

Imagine Israel without the Iron Dome you don't want to give them money for.

So 6.8 million people have to suffer and die for it?

Suffering happens in war. That's why war is bad. 6.8 million people won't die though. There will be 6.77 million Palestinians in Gaza after this war, ideally closer to a 2 state solution than if Hamas was still around.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You know what? Fuck it.

Keep using an imagined genocide to excuse an actual genocide.

Keep simping for a fascist government.

Keep defending an apartheid ethnostate system.

Keep excusing war crimes.

Keep victim blaming.

It's not like your awful perspective actually matters to anyone who matters anyway, thank fuck.

Have the day you deserve, genocide cheerleader.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've had a pretty fucking amazing couple weeks and that seems unlikely to change.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -1 points 10 months ago

Then stop doing that and start having the days you deserve.