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I didn't bring up mass shooters. I just talked about guns as a deterrent. Other people brought up mass shooters.
What does that have to do with anything?
Okay, great. Then I'm sure you can back up this reasoning with data on how often this happens vs. how many times attackers are fended off in other ways.
Why is there not data on this? Aren't all of you who are just saying "it's logic" or "it stands to reason" curious as to why there is absolutely nothing anyone has presented so far that can back up what you say?
Google tells me concealed carry started in Georgia in 1976. And all of you expect me to believe that in 45 years we do not have any studies that show whether or not concealed carry is effective as a crime deterrent? I'm not even saying no such study exists. I'm saying that if it does exist, none of you even know and most of you don't care either.
Because, again, we are talking about a law here. Laws, and repeals of laws, should be based on evidence, not guesses, not 'it stands to reason,' not 'it's logical to think,' not 'we hope.' Evidence. And if California proposed a law requiring every gun owner to, for example, submit their weapon for regular safety inspection, I would sure hope you would demand some evidence to support such a law.
This is what bothers me so much about gun discussions overall, both people who are into guns and people who are against guns- so much resistance to evidence. So much reliance on what you think is reasonable or rational or logical.
If you want guns to be illegal, fine. Show me evidence and data from other countries to support your argument.
If you want concealed carry to be legal in California, fine. Show me evidence and data from other states that shows that it is effective and safe.
Why is this so unreasonable?
Lol. You LITERALLY refer to mass shooters in your question to me. It was the only thing you had brought up.
I said it in response to:
What did you mean if you weren't talking about mass shooters?
He's right... What he said doesn't automatically constitute a reference to mass shootings. When I read it, I didn't think of it in that regard.
That said, he's pulling the straw man out for you, or moving the goal posts, or whatever its called... He's not answering your questions and instead turning the argument against you by focusing on something you said wrong. He's arguing in bad faith.
After the beginning of his reply started off with saying he wasn't the one who brought up mass shootings, I didn't bother reading the rest of his post. I wasn't going to give a guy who can't believe his own words he wrote my time of reading the rest of his post. Before that post though, I don't think I moved a goal post anywhere. In fact, all I wanted was a simple response to the question I had asked about how it makes it safer at a park, which I believe no one answered.
Ok so you're both arguing in bad faith then, got it.
Before that post? No, you didn't, but I wasn't referring to that post, was I?
And you're right, no one answered it. Everyone in this thread needs to understand that the person they're talking to isn't going to do the work to change their own minds. You want to change someone's mind? Put in the work, show references. Show studies. Show articles. We can all argue on logic and suppositions until the cows come home, but when has that ever worked for you to change someone's mind on such a divisive subject?
I can Google a million articles about people getting shot with their own gun. Can you also do the same and show me something where the law abiding, gun carrying, citizen saved the day at a park? I bet you can. Prove it.
There will always be violence. Guns don't change that. The only thing they do is make the death toll go up faster. You want to reduce the number of deaths by gun? Reduce the number of guns. And I say that as a law abiding gun owner.
You articles are irrelevant because...pay attention now..... THIS LAW DOESNT GET RID OF A SINGLE GUN. Also, look at you as well, completely unable to provide an answer to my simple question, so you have to go off on a mini tirade of other junk to bury that fact away.
You're an idiot.
Edit to add: and the reason is because you are failing to see the correlation between what I wrote, why restricting guns is a good idea, and how it applies to the law in the OP. Like I said, you're arguing in bad faith and, at this point, INTENTIONALLY not engaging in the subject and are choosing to twist things around. I don't know why I expected you to be any different than any of the other gun nuts out there. Scream a little louder next time, it might change my mind.
Me scream a little louder? You're the one still commenting in an old post that you had already lost sway of opinion in and calling people idiots. Lol
You're correct on that point. But you still didn't answer his question. Don't argue in bad faith like all the others do. He's trying to have a constructive discussion with you. You want to change his mind? Then engage with him. Otherwise acting like you just did shows that you have no intention of engaging with the actual topic and are instead trying to put him on the defensive because you know you lost this argument.
The guy never answered the one question I asked about to begin with. Look up there. I wrote it out very plainly and specifically and got no response about how this law will make a park more safe. All of his responses you're speaking of about the open discussion has not been a discussion of the one question I very specifically asked for. He's just been trying to shift the discussion over to something else. Amusingly because he has no sound argument on it.